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More Spirit Teachings from Imperator

Posted on 27 February 2023, 9:27

The Imperator group of 49 apparently advanced spirits had much more to communicate through the mediumship of William Stainton Moses, an Anglican priest, than what is summarized in the last two blogs here.  Some of it came through the trance-voice, while it later came primarily by means of automatic writing.  Members of the small circle, including Dr. Stanhope Speer (seated in photo with Moses standing behind him), often put questions to the Imperator group, but when Moses developed as an automatist, he put his own questions to them.  Some of the messages were from individual spirits, but many were messages of collective thought from the group or from a number within the group.  It is not always clear from the reports as to whether a certain message is coming from Imperator himself, from one of the group, or from all of the group.

speer

Imperator explained to Moses that he was slowly prepared for his mediumship. “We began with you on the material plane. We showed you the powers of spirit over matter, and enabled you to observe the phenomenal results of unseen agencies at work through you. At first, material phenomena sufficed you. By degrees we taught you of ourselves, and instilled into your mind new views of revealed truth. Your mind was enabled to see that not to any one race, or person, or place, or age, has the whole of Divine Truth been given. We showed you the germ of truth that underlies every religion that man has framed for himself.”  They added that they dread apathy more than opposition to their work. “Dead, cold, lifeless indifference which care not to question, and has not sufficient interest to doubt.” They lamented the fact that men are cumbered with dogmas and creeds of human invention, as well as rituals and ceremonies, which detract from the actual spiritual truths. 

The spirits stressed that the physical phenomena that came through Moses’s mediumship was intended as outward evidence of a hidden power, and that it was only a subsidiary of their real work. “We judged it wise to withdraw you, in time, from the public position of a teacher in a Church which no longer represented your intellectual and religious plane of thought…You have come to see that anthropomorphic views of God are born of man’s ignorance; that the revelation of God is frequently but the imagination of man; that the incarnation of the Supreme in a body of flesh is a human figment; a superstition which advanced knowledge puts aside, with its erroneous doctrines,  its degrading views of God. You have learned that man needs no external Saviour, and that duty honestly performed to self, brother, and to God is the only passport to happiness.”

They further explained they were not permitted to interfere in the chain of cause and effect, to save man from the consequences of his sin, to pander to idle curiosity, or to change the world from a state of probation. Moreover, they told him that their purpose was not to offer communication with his personal friends or the deceased loved ones of his friends and that such mediumship runs the risk of possession by undeveloped spirits, those closest to the earth plane. “We can but offer, and protect and guide and train, and prepare the willing mind for future progress.”

On the subject of planes or spheres in the afterlife, the group communicated that the spheres are states, not places, and that they are not governed by conditions of time and place as we are. “The difference between the spheres is caused by the moral, intellectual, and spiritual state of the inhabitants,” they communicated. “Affinities congregate, and rejoice in congenial society. Not from neighbourhood or locality, but from similarity of tastes or pursuits. Into the spheres of the higher spirits none that are unholy enter. Into the lower are congregated those who yet require teaching and guidance, which they receive from higher spirits who leave their own bright homes in order to add a ray of light to groping, earth-bound spirits.”

Such are they who have made little progress in the earth sphere; not the wholly bad, but the vacillating, aimless souls who have frittered away their opportunities and made no use of them.

It was further stated that the spheres are pictured to human minds as places like our world as it is impossible for us to understand them otherwise. Things that are real to them are imperceptible and impalpable to our rude senses.  They are not limited by space as we are but their surroundings are, to their refined senses, as real as ours.  They further explained that the first three spheres are near the earth plane. “The first with those who, from many causes, are attracted to earth. Such are they who have made little progress in the earth sphere; not the wholly bad, but the vacillating, aimless souls who have frittered away their opportunities and made no use of them. Those, again, whom the affections and affinity for pursuits of their friends restrain them from soaring, and who prefer to remain near the earth sphere, though they might progress. In addition, there are the imperfectly trained souls whose education is still young, and who are in course of elementary teaching; those who have been incarnated in imperfect bodies, and have to learn still what they should have learned on earth. Those, too, who have been prematurely withdrawn from earth, and, from no fault of their own, have still to learn before they can progress.”

Reincarnation was one subject in which they couldn’t give a direct answer, but they did say that reincarnation, in the sense which it is popularly understood, is not true. “We have said, too, that certain great spirits, for certain high purposes and interests, have returned to earth and lived again amongst men.  There are other aspects of the question which, in the exercise of our discretion, we withhold; the time is not yet come for them.  Spirits cannot be expected to know all abstruse mysteries, and those who profess to do give the best proof of their falsity.”

It was explained that the words used by Moses are those in his vocabulary, but the thoughts are theirs. The handwriting differed as evidence of their individuality.  They again pointed out that the physical manifestations were solely to offer evidence of their existence. “They are necessary in the present stage of our work, and for some minds will always be necessary. Therefore, we have produced for you from time-to-time marvels. We have warned you not to fix too strong an interest in them, and have told you that in many cases they are harmful. In all they are but secondary.” They added that the physical mediumship can be dangerous to its possessor, and that it is serviceable only to those who are learning the alphabet of spirit communication.

They further pointed out that the physical phenomena are produced by spirits who can produce them best. “Those spirits are the lowest and most earthly; either those who have passed through incarnation without progress, or those who have reached but not attained to it. These last are most powerful agents, but they know no distinctions of morality. It would be absurd and foolish to you if the progressed spirits of humanity were to be put forward as the agents in what you contemptuously describe as the moving of furniture.” The more advanced spirits, they said, no longer have any power over gross matter and therefore are unable to produce such physical phenomena.

We warn you again against deceptive agencies, which abound and will be increasingly active.

Spirit photographs, they said, are pictures of spirit substance, not of spirits themselves. They are moulded models framed to invite recognition.  “They would be made either by the spirit himself or by some spirits who are acting under his direction, save in cases where deceptive agencies are at work. We warn you again against deceptive agencies, which abound and will be increasingly active. You must expect many such assaults. Our mission is too important not to challenge envy and attack. We warn you.”

Imperator added: “You must remember that those of us who operate on the plane of spirit rather than of matter, do so on your earth under conditions that are very delicate and precarious.  Matter has faded from our gaze, and when we return to the material plane, we see nothing of it.  All we see is the spirit. We could not present ourselves for a photograph, but we might commission other spirits to present an image of us.”

Imperator further explained that when spirits appear to humans, they do so in forms recognizable to them. “We array ourselves in such sort as you would expect us to appear. If the spirit is showing itself to its own friends, it would appear in the semblance of the dress it was in the habit of wearing in earth-life; and would specially exaggerate, or draw attention to, any peculiarity of gesture, dress or demeanour which would identify it.”  When they are rejected by loved ones on the earth plane, they suffer bitter pain, corresponding to the intensity of job with which a spirit finds itself still loved and recognized.”

Asked whether they require food, Imperator replied that it is not food as we understand it. “We are supported by the spirit ether which interpenetrates space, and by which your spirit bodies are even now supported. It is the universal food and support of the spirit, whether incarnated or not. Will-power suffices for our movements. We are attracted by sympathy, repelled by antipathy, drawn by desire on our part, or on that of those who wish for our presence.”

Michael Tymn is the author of The Afterlife Revealed: What Happens After We Die, Resurrecting Leonora Piper: How Science Discovered the Afterlife, and Dead Men Talking: Afterlife Communication from World War I.
His latest book, No One Really Dies: 25 Reasons to Believe in an Afterlife is published by White Crow books.

Next blog post: March 13


Comments

Michael,
There are many contradictions in understanding what was happening in this situation of medium and controls. I like the dogs in the library.

This excerpt is interesting about the talk about the confusion of Stainton Moses. As a medium I would expect to arrive operationally active -no confusion. (Those who I deal with will assist with the transition). I would have expected Stainton Moses would be much better than myself.

This comes from Mrs. Piper & the Society for Psychical Research, by Michael Sage. (Sorry about the — which I think is either Newbold or Mrs Piper) The talk about confusion is very strange and may explain the two Imperator groups:

At the sitting on the next day, Professor Newbold returns to the charge.
“Can you bring Stainton Moses here?”
G. P.—“I will do my best.”
Professor N.—“Is he far advanced?”
G. P.—“Oh, no, I should say not. He will have to think for a while yet.”
Professor N.—“What do you mean?”
G. P.—“Well, have you forgotten all I told you before?”
Professor N.—“You mean about progression by repentance?”
G. P.—“Certainly I do.”
Professor N.—“Was not he good?”
G. P.—“Yes, but not perfect by any means.”
Professor N.—“Was he a true medium?”
G. P.—“True, yes, very true; his ‘light’ was very true, yet he made a great many mistakes and deceived himself.”
Phinuit, sent to find Stainton Moses, ends by bringing him. George Pelham warns the sitter against the confusions and incoherences of Stainton Moses’s communications. “When he arrives,” says George Pelham, “I will wake him up.”
Professor N.—“Is he asleep?”
G. P.—“Oh, Billie, you are stupid, I fear, at times. I do not mean wake him up in a material sense.”
Professor N.—“Nor did I.”
G. P.—“Well, then, old man, don’t be wasting light.”
Professor N.—“I’m not wasting light, but I am obliged to find out what you mean.”[Pg 123]
G. P.—“Well, this is what I wish also.”
Professor N.—“Stainton Moses has been nearly three years in the spirit…. Do you mean to say that he is not yet free from confusion?”

All the exact information given existed already in the minds of those present; all the rest was untrue. Stainton Moses had an excellent chance of proving his identity. We have said that he had written down the real names of his “spirit-guides” or “controls” in one of his note-books. At the
time these sittings were taking place in America, Frederic Myers, in England, was studying these note-books in order to publish so much of them as he thought fit. He knew these names, but I believe he was the only person in the world who knew them. Stainton Moses was told, “Give us the names of your spirit-guides; it will be a splendid proof. Mr Myers knows them, but we do not. We will send them to him, and if they are correct we shall no longer be able to have a reasonable doubt of your identity.” The self-styled Stainton Moses seemed perfectly to understand what was asked of him; he gave the names, and every one of them was wrong.[Pg 124]
The Project Gutenberg eBook, Mrs. Piper & the Society for Psychical Research, by Michael Sage, et al, Translated by Noralie Robertson
Title: Mrs. Piper & the Society for Psychical Research
Author: Michael Sage
Release Date: September 25, 2006
Thanks,
Bruce

Bruce Williams, Tue 7 Mar, 11:10

Thanks, Bruce, for the additional comments relative to the Imperator of Moses vs. the Imperator of Piper. It is very confusing and I just attempted to do a little more reading of the SPR scripts relative to it. However, it gets more confusing as one reads and I’ll have to leave that for a future discussion. The predominant thought among the researchers seems to be that Rector/Imperator is not a dream creation of Piper’s mind as William James initially theorized, but even that is subject to debate as the link between the subconscious mind and spirit world is not understood.

Michael Tymn, Tue 7 Mar, 07:40

You may well be right in your take on reincarnation, Stafford. But my alternative take, equally speculative, is that reincarnation in the traditional sense is the exception rather than the rule. This view, along the lines of Imperator’s brief remarks, accordingly places crucial significance upon the manner in which we live our lives in this world.

If there is no automatic do-over in most cases, and one’s growth in love and wisdom in this life is largely determinative of one’s position and possibilities in the next, then Spiritualism is substantially in accord with the teachings of Jesus, whom I consider to be, in his earthly form as best we can glean it, the ultimate authority about all things having to do with salvation, here and hereafter.

That said, I, like Michael, am also drawn to the idea of a group soul, which may play into this reincarnation thing in ways we dogs in the library can’t begin to get a handle on. Bottom line for me and, I trust, for most of us here: what’s best will be…whether or not I happen to like it or can grasp it right now. Our job, as Luther’s spirit supposedly said, is to plow our furrow, not to figure out the farm.

Newton Finn, Mon 6 Mar, 17:11

Anthony,
I did track down this quote
There remains, however, the fact that the Imperator- band emerged at Mrs. Piper’s in consequence of Dr. Hodgson having, in 1896, pointed out to George Pelham the importance of making Stainton Moses ” clear,” and getting the answers to his questions. ” The final result,”
Dr. Hodgson writes, ” was that Moses professed to get the assistance of his former ’ controls,’ who after communicating on various occasions directly in November and December, 1896, and January, 1897, demanded that the control of Mrs. Piper’s ’ light ’ should be placed in their hands.” That they were not really the controls of Stainton Moses seems, however, quite certain ; they were wholly ignorant about the automatist himself and what they were supposed to have written through him ; this
was not the case with the Piper-Moses himself, and cannot, therefore, be ascribed to the ignorance of the medium.
As regards their real identity, the more secondary members of the band seem to have given varying and quite impossible names, while Rector and Imperator did not even try to satisfy the curiosity of the experimenters. In the opinion of the researchers, they did not seriously claim to be identical with the controls of Stainton Moses whose names they had adopted.
p224 The evidence for communication with the dead, by Mrs. Anna Hude,PH. D.Hude, Anna, 1858-1934.
London [etc.] : T.F. Unwin, [1913]. My recollection was that Hodgson made a comment opposite to these researchers but hard to find.
Bruce

Bruce Williams, Mon 6 Mar, 12:45

Newton, I am inclined to think that reincarnation is an option for souls who have little to learn from another physical life, or who outright don’t want one. I think it very unlikely that one life is all anyone ever gets. There is too much evidence from a number of varying sources that it exists. Would you agree?

Stafford, Sun 5 Mar, 23:48

Stafford, I inferred from Imperator’s comments that he was saying the same thing as Frederic Myers said through Geraldine Cummins and Silver Birch said through Maurice Barbanell, that reincarnation doesn’t play out like people who believe in it think it does and that it is beyond human understanding, i.e., that only a small part of the “higher self” returns. 

Silver Birch said that trying to explain reincarnation is like trying to explain the color of the sky to someone who has been blind from birth.

Michael Tymn, Sun 5 Mar, 20:39

Given the bizarre findings, Stafford, of the UVa research, to the effect that “reincarnation” can involve a deceased person “coming back” into a child already alive when the “returning” person died, or two deceased persons “coming back” into the same child at the same time, etc., perhaps Imperator was wise not to wade deeply into that subject but rather to merely indicate that “reincarnation” does happen in certain cases. William James had it right—don’t you think?—when he said that when it comes to comprehending higher things, we’re like dogs in a library, staring at shelves of books.

Newton Finn, Sun 5 Mar, 16:31

I have enjoyed and learned much from Spirit Teachings, but what Imperator says, or rather doesn’t say, about reincarnation has always troubled me. Why be so evasive? I suspect it’s because Imperator realized his/their support of the doctrine would be too much for British society to digest at the moment and would discredit the overall message, especially for those sympathetic to psychical research.

Stafford Betty, Sun 5 Mar, 14:51

Thank you Don, Michael and Bruce for responding about the Imperator Moses/Piper question.

And Michael, I’m happy to have inspired a potential future blog post subject from you on the topic!

Anthony, Sun 5 Mar, 05:09

Michael and fellow writers,
I am saddened by the loss of Eric to this group and I am sure that the greatness of this loss has been relayed to his son.
I partly agree with the colourisation of message by the medium’s mind but I know that most mediums try for less colurisation. For SM ( from psypioneer_v11_n8-9__aug-sep_2015)
 
He then says that he pondered a great deal as to whether his own thoughts entered into the
subject matter of the communications. He says, “I took extraordinary pains to prevent any
such admixture. At first the writing was slow and it was necessary for me to follow it with
my eye, but, even then, the thoughts were not my thoughts. Very soon the messages assumed
a character of which I had no doubt whatever that the thought was opposed to my own. But I
cultivated the power of occupying my mind with other things during the time the writing was
going on and was able to read an abstruse book, and follow out a line of close reasoning
while the message was written with unbroken regularity. Messages so written extended over
pages in the course of which there is no correction, no fault in composition, and often a
sustained and vigorous beauty of style.”

I was looking up the reference which sorted out the debate on if SM Imperator group was the same as Mrs Pipers Imperator group. This is not the MRS. PIPER AND THE IMPERATOR BAND OF” CONTROLS.“By A. W. TRETHEWY discussion but a statement by Hodgson in spirit.
Thanks,
Bruce

Bruce Williams, Fri 3 Mar, 13:33

An interesting comment by Henry Holt from the book mentioned in the previous comment:

“The significance and value of a life depend upon the ratio between capacity and opportunity; and if there be a future life vastly more important than the present one, a comprehension of it might easily reach a point where the tantalizing opportunities of that life, visible but not available, would make this life appear so contemptible in comparison as to paralyze effort and even interest.”

Michael Tymn, Thu 2 Mar, 23:51

Anthony,

After sending an earlier comment to you, I recalled that much of the SPR material is in Henry Holt’s 1914 book, “On the Cosmic Relations.”  Here is an interesting quote of William James:

“I can see no contradiction between Rector’s being on the one hand an improvised creature [of Mrs. Piper’s subconscious], and on the other hand the extraordinarily impressive personality which he unquestionably is. He has marvelous discernment of the inner states of the sitters whom he addresses, and speaks straight to the troubles as if he knew them all in advance.  He addresses you as if he were the most devoted of your friends.  He appears like an aged, and when he speaks instead of writing, like a somewhat hollow-voiced clergyman, a little weary of his experience of the world, endlessly patient and sympathetic, and desiring to put all his tenderness and wisdom at your service while you are there. Critical and fastidious sitters have recognized his wisdom, and confess their debt to him as a moral adviser. With all due respect to Mrs. Piper, I feel very sure that her own waking capacity for being a spiritual adviser, if it were compared with Rector’s, would fall greatly behind.”

Holt questions the latter sentence, wondering how Mrs. Piper could make anything so superior to herself.  Actually, there is much more here than I had recalled and it might make for a complete blog in a month or two.  If there is a comparison with the Moses sittings, I’ll cover that. Thanks again for the question.

Michael Tymn, Thu 2 Mar, 23:23

Anthony,

My recollection of the Piper communication is much the same as Don’s. I vaguely recall that it was just Rector, not Imperator, per se, or other members of the group, but I am not sure. I also recall that Stainton Moses communicated, but Hodgson and other researchers didn’t feel it was the same personality they knew as Moses. It was not nearly as refined or intellectual as the earthly Moses. Of course, there are a number of possible explanations for that. However, again, that is just a very vague recollection.  I had printed copies of many of the transcripts at one time, but I no longer have them and it would take some time to find them at the SPRs web site, which I am not up to right now.  If I do find something, I’ll let you know. Thanks for the question. Sorry I can’t give a better answer right now.

Michael Tymn, Thu 2 Mar, 22:03

Anthony…

Regarding the various appearances of Imperator—to the best of my knowledge, there is no absolute agreement as to whether the Imperator communicating through Mrs. Piper (or Richard Hodgson, or another female British medium in the 19-teens whose name escapes me at the moment) were indeed the same Imperator or not. I’ve heard opinions both pro and con, but there does seem to be general agreement that at least the general tenor of the messages was consistent. Perhaps Michael or someone else has some more specific information…

Don Porteous, Thu 2 Mar, 17:16

I’d like to add my wishes that Eric experience a wonderful adventure in his new phase of life - I also enjoyed reading his comments here and will miss them.

I’d like to circle back to a question I raised in the last post concerning the Imperator that came through Moses and the Imperator that came through Piper. Is there any sense that Piper knew who Moses was, or had ever heard of him? Did Imperator seem consistent through both mediums?

Anthony, Thu 2 Mar, 12:15

I fully agree with Chris in hoping that Eric doesn’t “rest in peace.”

A little more about Moses and the possible coloring of the messages.  Here is what he had to say when asked about it:

“It is an interesting subject for speculation whether my own thoughts entered into the subject-matter of the communications.  I took extraordinary pains to prevent any such admixture. [As I said], at first the writing was slow, and it was necessary for me to follow it with my eye, but even then the thoughts were not my thoughts.  Very soon the messages assumed a character of which I had no doubt whatever that the thought was opposed to my own.  But I cultivated the power of occupying my mind with other things during the time the writing was going on, and was able to read an abstruse book, and follow out a line of close reasoning, while the message was written with unbroken regularity.  Messages so written extended over many pages, and in their course there is no correction, no fault in composition, and often a sustained vigor and beauty of style.  I am not, however, concerned to contend that my own mind was not utilized, or that what was thus written did not depend for its form on the mental qualifications of the medium through whom it was given.  So far as I know, it is always the case that the idiosyncrasies of the medium are traceable in such communication. It is not conceivable that it should be otherwise.  But it is certain that the mass of ideas conveyed to me were alien to my own opinions, were in the main opposed to my settled convictions, and, moreover, that in several cases information, of which I was assuredly ignorant, clear, precise, and definite in form, susceptible of verification, and always exact, was thus conveyed to me.  As at many of the séances spirits came and rapped out on the table clear and precise information about themselves, which we afterward verified, so on repeated occasions was such information conveyed to me by this method of automatic writing.”

As for Amos’s questioning of the 49, I wonder what the motivation would be in that regard, i.e., why would some lower-level spirit claim to be 49 more advanced spirits, why not just one? It should be kept in mind that different handwriting and modes of expression were identified with different communicators, although it might be argued that Moses was simply talented in his ability to impersonate others.  There is no way to to absolutely certify Moses and one is left to examine the totality of his story and make his or her own judgment.

Michael Tymn, Wed 1 Mar, 22:47

Thank you Jon and Don for the (final) update on our dear friend, Eric. I put the adjective in quotes for all the reasons we discuss here. Our little congregation has lost a key member…for the moment. Let us continue to raise our voices with the reverence, for this life and the next, which Eric steadfastly urged upon us.

Newton Finn, Wed 1 Mar, 21:28

Some years ago I would say: ’Eric, may you rest in peace’. Now I say: ’Eric may you be as active as you want and enjoying yourself as much as possible in the afterlife…and maybe, if you are up to it, you can tell us the true story about All That Is.’
We will miss you.
Chris

Chris, Wed 1 Mar, 15:09

All…

I just heard from Tim Franklin, Eric’s son, in Wales. Apparently Eric passed away on the 6th of Feb., following complications from hernia surgery.
Funeral was last week, and he was interred next to the remains of his beloved Maureen. Onwards and upwards…

Don Porteous, Wed 1 Mar, 12:21

Dear all,

I received an email from Eric’s son today. “I am sorry to have to tell you that Eric (my dad) passed away on the 6th Feb in Brongollais Hospital. He was having a hernia op and deteriorated suddenly post op.”

Eric was a lively and robust commentator. I liked him. I hope he’s travelling safely.

Jon, Wed 1 Mar, 12:00

I think that every message, even those from trancemediums is colored by the medium because the spirit needs to use the vocabulary limited by the chosen language and individual. It is a bit like the born blind person who dreams in taste,smell, hearing, touch and emotions…along the limitations he possesses. That is why NDE’s and messages from spirit can be so different. And then there is still the argument of level of development of the medium, the accepting society and even of the spirits itself . So accept those messages and visions that give you a warm heart. Even truth above the level of your understanding and development misses its goal.

Chris, Wed 1 Mar, 08:24

Amos,

Yes, Myers and Edmund Gurney both sat with Moses.  I can’t recall the reference now, but I do recall that Myers was levitated and pinned against the wall. If I can find the reference, I’ll provide more detail.

Moses’s biggest critic was Frank Podmore, who apparently never met him, but came up with many ways in which Moses “could have” duped others.  Italian researcher Ernesto Bozzano wrote a lengthy article in one of the journals defending Moses and further honoring him, but I am totally disorganized in my old age and can’t find that journal now. 

I guess you can interpret photos in different ways. Moses got to know Dr. Speer because he was personal tutor to Charleton Speer, his son, who also became his biographer. Moses and the senior Speer became good friends.  Speer was older, so that might be why he is sitting and Moses standing.

Michael Tymn, Tue 28 Feb, 22:56

Don,

I have not heard from Eric and have the same concerns as you. If you hear anything, please let me know. Thanks.

Michael Tymn, Tue 28 Feb, 22:41

Michael,
I have no reason to not believe that Moses acted as a medium at times.  It is just that so much of what is written by Moses, concerns the Christian belief system of the Anglican church, of which Moses was an erstwhile priest.  As I commented previously, “There is sustenance in the “Imperator” views of religion which makes them worth considering but I think that they should be evaluated on their own merit and not that they may have been provided by high level spirits.”  I am not discarding the idea that Moses was a medium of sorts, having contact at times with spirit entities, I am just not so quick to accept the all-powerful Wizard of Oz ‘Imperator’ and his troop of 49 Greek scholars and prophets of the Bible.

I rarely use opinions of other people to validate the authenticity of some long-dead mediums.  We are all human and each of us has our own likes and dislikes and belief systems regarding psychic phenomena and those who enable it.  Just because Myers thought that, “With the even tenor of this [Stainton Moses] straightforward and reputable life was inwoven a chain of mysteries which, in whatever way they be explained, make that life one of the most extraordinary which our century has seen.”—-that doesn’t convince me to accept that Moses was in contact with 49 spirits from the higher spheres.  Myers actually says very little about Moses and nothing of the group of 49 entities and as an opinion what he says means nothing to me.


As I have grown older I have come to acknowledge my own psychic abilities to discern the inner consciousness of people and animals; so much so that I cannot watch any movie that includes scenes with animals and even when looking at pictures of people, I receive an inner knowing of their personality and inclinations to behave in certain ways. (I will grant that this ability may be my own experience of living with and observing people for 80 plus years.)  The picture of Stainton Moses standing behind   Stanhope Speer is very disturbing to me.  I see Moses as a submissive ineffectual weak young man acquiescing to the wishes of a dominant older man, Dr. Speer, and being used by him to further his (Speer) own belief system. I think this was a relationship of mutual benefit.  I cannot pick up one of the two books written by Moses, which I have, without an internal constriction of sorts and objection, just by touching the books.  It is a true visceral feeling. - AOD

Amos Oliver Doyle, Tue 28 Feb, 19:22

Michael,
Did Myers ever sit with Moses during a seance?  - AOD

Amos Oliver Doyle, Tue 28 Feb, 18:25

All…

Has anyone heard anything from or about Eric Franklin (Lampeter, Wales) lately? He’s been silent for about a month—unusual for him—and I can’t raise him by email…

Don Porteous, Tue 28 Feb, 15:59

Amos,

Further to my earlier email, I thought I’d offer a quote from the esteemed psychical researcher Frederic W. H. Myers:

“We know that the spirit of a living man controls his own organism, and we shall see reason to think that discarnate spirits may also control, by some form of ‘possession,’ the organisms of living persons, may affect directly some portions of matter which we call living, namely, the brain of the entranced sensitive.  There seems to me, then, no paradox in the supposition that some effect should be produced by spiritual agency—possibly through the mediation of some kind of energy derived from living human beings—upon inanimate matter as well. And I believe that as a fact such effects have been observed and recorded in a trustworthy manner by Sir William Crookes, the late Dr. Carleton Speer and others in the cases especially of D. D. Home and of W. Stainton Moses.”

Of Moses, Myers had this to say: “With the even tenor of this straightforward and reputable life was inwoven a chain of mysteries which, in whatever way they be explained, make that life one of the most extraordinary which our century has seen.”

Do you have an eyewitness who can impeach what Myers has testified to? I can quote several more eyewitnesses if necessary.

Michael Tymn, Tue 28 Feb, 08:58

Amos,

Thanks for the comment. s I understand it, Moses was having issues with the Church before he accepted mediumship.  That’s why he became an English teacher at a university.  That’s also why Imperator chose him. Still, Moses had difficulty accepting some of the teachings of Imperator that were not consistent with Church teachings.

What I have not been able to find is how the Church reacted to Moses’s mediumship.  I assume that he became somewhat divorced from the Church, but I have not found anything to confirm that. It is pretty clear, however, that Frederic Myers, William Crookes, Sergeant Cox and others accepted his mediumship as valid, not fraudulent. Myers said he had no doubt as to Moses’s integrity.  As to what are high and low spirits, it is difficult to know where to draw the line.

Michael Tymn, Tue 28 Feb, 00:10

According to William Stainton Moses, Imperator explained that,


“We judged it wise to withdraw you, [Moses]  in time, from the public position of a teacher in a Church which no longer represented your intellectual and religious plane of thought…You have come to see that anthropomorphic views of God are born of man’s ignorance; that the revelation of God is frequently but the imagination of man; that the incarnation of the Supreme in a body of flesh is a human figment; a superstition which advanced knowledge puts aside, with its erroneous doctrines,  its degrading views of God. You have learned that man needs no external Saviour, and that duty honestly performed to self, brother, and to God is the only passport to happiness.”


In the above quote from whomever, it is acknowledged that William Stainton Moses had come to understand that the church no longer represented his intellectual and religious plane of thought.  I can’t believe that Moses was oblivious to this view.  I think that is the reason Stainton Moses manifested “Imperator” and “49” other “spirits” to speak for him.  They were his proxy with the church of England. They took the blame for any views that Moses may have had.


I like Newton’s comment that “As I have long come to believe, the highest communications come through inspiration and intuition, not direct communication. This is a point made repeatedly in Spirit Teachings but so often overlooked.”

I agree with that comment, adding perhaps some guidance from a higher power and I believe that Stainton Moses is offering an option to provide an alternative choice for those who, like me, do not accept that Imperator was an disembodied high level entity leading a group of 49 other enlightened spirits.  There is sustenance in the “Imperator” views of religion which makes them worth considering but I think that they should be evaluated on their own merit and not that they may have been provided by high level spirits.  - AOD

Amos Oliver Doyle, Mon 27 Feb, 18:32


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