Comments
Paul,
A few messages ago my spirit friend mentioned you as “an important contact”. I thought important in what sense. My understanding was completed by your recent posts. You provide a cornucopia of spiritual knowledge. I looked for The Green Book on Scribd under your name etc but no luck. Any additional information?
Your depth of the analysis of spirit writings is as impressive as Admiral W. Usborne Moore. I know that there are both highs and lows of spiritual advice which has been given over the years. Each advanced spirit presents a viewpoint some of which are opposing while many are difficult to understand. It is like business management theories with each one working in different marketing environments. If the market is turbulent then a certain theory works. The spirit world is also not uniform and requires careful analysis to match information with how they see their world. Recent arrivals have different points of view to those higher up the scale.
The clarity of expression by each spirit writer is very important. ACD was an excellent writer and this continued in the afterlife. My friend Garth (his wife was a trance medium working with ACD) told me of a chat with ACD. “Garth you like puzzles one of my stories that I wrote had two endings. Which one? “ Messages like those are very commonplace for proof of survival but do not add to our Body of Knowledge (Project Management call their best analysis of how to understand things as PMBOK). It is a collection of the current understanding in the field.
I would say we are both looking at an After Life Body of Knowledge.
The quality of content of these messages is an important factor to be included in such a collection. In my day I worked on critical success factors for New Product Development. By analysing the success outcomes you could pinpoint the theory for continued success. (Very important not to waste money.) The same for spirit writings. If we can determine which writings are needed for the best understanding of the afterlife.
I think we both agree that Myers group are a high accuracy group but there are no deep explanations of the structure with levels and vibration. They operate at the corporate proof of survival level. My level. Personal experience of proof of survival is great but slow.
The Grace Cooke (White Eagle) and the Maurice Barbanell (Silver Birch ) are high content.
Which spirit writings do you think provide the factors for people to believe in the afterlife? Is it the author or the content? An example, ACD was very keen to add the eight principle to the seven of the Spiritualist Church but was not accepted. When in spirit this would be top of his list to clarify this point.
My friend Garth wrote a newsletter and the following links might be of interest.
“When Arthur Conan Doyle returned through Grace Cooke he reported difficulty in spirit communication, afflicting even him. He had discovered generally that many mediums were at times transmitting thought forms, and not genuine messages.
Conan Doyle was assisted in communication by the medium’s guide, known as White Eagle (W.E.). But, as Ivan Cooke recorded, the guide did not live entirely in the spirit world. He lived on a mountain in the east, from where he controlled his medium. He continued to do this as late as the publication of Grace Cooke’s book “ Meditation” (1956). However, still later, W.E. messages appeared to place him fully in the spirit world.”
Having tried, while on earth, to get the SNU to recognise the leadership of Jesus Christ (the so-called Eighth Principle), he found after death that there was some truth even in the concept of Atonement, some value in ritual, and that the Christ Spirit, expressed through Jesus, was an overriding reality. After exploring the various spheres, he even claimed that some people at least, reincarnated on earth. (Spiritualist Church was not great on reincarnation) All this he transmitted within a few months of his arrival. Even allowing for his eagerness to correct any mistaken emphases in his earthly teaching, and his exceptional soul, this is rather quick for a new resident, and could only be possible as part of a special plan.
http://iapsop.com/psypioneer/psypioneer_v1_n5_sep_2004.pdf
Your suggestion about A study in Survival prompted me to order my copy of this book but Garth had also written about it
A STUDY IN SURVIVAL Conan Doyle Solves the Final Problem
Dr Roger Straughan, sometime in the mid 1990’s, became an unsuspecting target for ACD’s attention (as Roger and I both affectionately refer to the ongoing personality of Sir Arthur). And Roger, with a philosopher’s enquiring mind, soon realised that “readings” brought evidence that not only had ACD survived but that ACD was aware
From his original position of skepticism, he clearly states that the evidences presented to him convinced him that death is not the end. Having established this, he then considers the question “So what?” Is survival good news? And if it doesn’t look so rosey, how might it change one’s outlook – so that one may nurture one’s own soul-being in preparedness for the transition from a material world into the world of spirit. He introduces thought provoking matters such as the nature of reality and the Ultimate Reality – and leaves the reader to ponder their own religious and philosophical views.
http://iapsop.com/psypioneer/psypioneer_v5_n12_dec_2009.pdf
Thanks,
Bruce
Bruce, Tue 17 Dec, 11:39
Dear David,
I did dip into the White Eagle Teachings website you so kindly pointed me to. As an initial foray, I put in the search term ‘vibration’ and found, among the search returns, Index # T109, “Life in the Spirit World” https://www.whiteagleteachings.org/pdfs/ea474f4e64828689.pdf. which sounded of promising interest. Indeed, in the very first para following the introductory invocation, the following communication is shared:
“The world of spirit, the spirit world: this idea is usually associated with the heaven places, with certain spheres to which man passes on leaving this mortal life. Many find it difficult to understand the spirit world, and when told that the spirit world is a state of consciousness within the soul, rather than a place or a state of life outside, find it very difficult to comprehend. You have been told that time and space do not exist in the spirit world, yet you hear of journeyings from place to place, from sphere to sphere, and so the idea of there being no space and no time in the spirit world is incomprehensible to you.
Let us consider the inner consciousness. Those who can respond to the finer vibrations of the astral world know that it is not merely thought which links you with that astral or spirit world, but rather a feeling, a realisation, or a vibration of the soul. The spirit world is not a place outside your present world. Some conceive the spirit world as being in the planes surrounding the earth, and indeed you are told this is so, and yet we come and say that the spirit world is within you. How are we going to connect the two ideas of the spirit world as a plane of life outside the physical, and the spirit world as being contained within the soul?
I want you to experiment as we talk. I want you to close your eyes and turn your thoughts inward. Now, do you become aware of a life which is very real, within your soul? Yes, we think we are aware of a vibration, a plane of consciousness which we can alter by our aspirations. We can be aware of a plane of consciousness within which is dull and dark, or we can increase our awareness to a finer, quicker vibration and become conscious of a like sphere of life. As our thoughts become more beautiful, so the light within appears to grow brighter. If our thoughts remain ugly and dull, so the world within remains drab and ugly. So we find that the world of spirit is reflected within the mirror of our own soul.” (…and continuing)
This is an extraordinarily crucial set of insights, as they combine what are actually two views of the nature of discarnate reality that one finds in the literature. The first is the ‘hierarchical levels of vibration in consciousness’ view that Beecher and many others have expressed. The second is the ‘externalization of the soul’ view that White Eagle indicates here. This second view is less well known, less discussed, but nevertheless quite ubiquitous in the discarnate literature. The closest example I know of, however, that accords most precisely with what White Eagle is discussing here is to be found in the writings of Henry Corbin, the great French scholar of Islamic esotericism. From Henry Corbin, ‘Spiritual Body and Celestial Earth’ (1977):
“Of all the realities that man sees and contemplates in the world beyond, those which delight, like houris, castles, gardens, green vegetation, and streams of running water – as well as their opposites – the horrifying kinds of which Hell is composed – none of these is extrinsic to him, to the very essence of his soul, none is distinct or separated from his own act of existing. …Let no one therefore believe he has the right to question the place…of these realities; not even to wonder whether they are on the inside or the outside of our cosmos… Such questions are meaningless once it is understood that we are concerned with another realm of existence, between which and the material world there is no relation as to situs [place, situation] or as to dimension.
…Everything to which man aspires, everything he desires, is instantaneously present to him, or rather one should say: to picture his desire is itself to experience the real presence of its object. But…Paradise and Hell, good and evil, all that can reach man of what constitutes his retribution in the world beyond, have no other source than the essential ‘I’ of man himself, formed as it is by his intentions and projects, his meditations, his innermost beliefs, his conduct. Their principle could not be in something with an existence and a situs different from his own act of existing.” (pp.165-6)
Best,
Paul
Paul, Sun 15 Dec, 17:00
Dear Michael,
Of course it doesn’t surprise me that the general view that you encounter among your religious acquaintances regarding discarnate states fits in the mold that you described. I did just upload to Scribd the encyclopedia article on ‘Heaven and Hell’ that I recommended to your attention in my prior post:
https://www.scribd.com/document/805015185/Encyclopedia-of-Religion-2ndEd-Vol-6-Heaven-and-Hell
There may be a better way of doing such file sharing on this blog, one that doesn’t involve Scribd’s extractive policies for downloading. Perhaps a Dropbox or similar. This may be something Jon can address.]
Best,
Paul
Paul, Sun 15 Dec, 16:57
Dear David,
Before engaging with your reply, I wanted to make two observations which are pertinent to the earlier thread of comments. First, with regard to whether or not ‘The After-life of Henry Ward Beecher’ was published, I just noted that whereas in the Sept 25th, 1941 (No.73) issue of ‘The Psychic Observer’, Marcella DeCou Hicks had yet to find a publisher, Michael gave her dates in the opening para as 1888-1942, which implies she had passed shortly after making that comment, which is a strong indication that the manuscript was indeed never published.
Second, I thought it worth revisiting in brief Beecher’s comments on his present discarnate perspective on religion, and what he viewed as the irrelevance of dogmatic theology. This is in part true, but also, quite evidently, in part false, insofar as there are a number of claims of dogmatic theology as he would have understood it in his life that he would still hold as being quite correct in his afterlife. These include the reality of discarnate survival, which he discusses as ‘the communion of the saints’, the reality of God, the oneness of God, which is a Christian doctrine just as the Trinity is, and, in a broad sense, the possibilities of discarnate human felicity and wretchedness, whether this be expressed in a simplistic language of heaven and hell or more sophisticatedly as he does in his discarnate communications shared in Michael’s blog posts. View these in contrast to the ‘dogmatic theology’ of scientific reductionism or philosophic materialism, which holds none of this as being the case. That ‘dogmatic theology’ is entirely overthrown by discarnate testimony (as well as other arguments and sources), whereas Beecher’s dogmatic theology is overthrown only in part.
To turn to your reply in proper, I certainly wouldn’t say I dismissed spiritual teachings transmitted by mediums or considered them without merit. That’s far from the case. Rather, it’s a matter of relative degree of perceived value in respect to specific aspects of teaching. The whole issue, however, is one of subjective judgment based on familiarity with different sets of source materials, and in this there is plenty of elbow room for reasonable, good-faith differences of view.
Thank you very much for directing my attention to the White Eagle teachings, which look very rich indeed. My primary point of familiarity with the White Eagle Lodge is as the source, with Grace Cooke serving as medium in the presence of Lady Doyle and family, for the collection of discarnate communications from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle originally titled ‘Thy Kingdom Come’ and subsequently titled in abridged form ‘The Return of Arthur Conan Doyle’ and ‘Arthur Conan Doyle’s Book of the Beyond’, a book of great intrinsic interest. Speaking of Sir Arthur, before moving on I do have to drop in a reference to an extremely charming book, ‘A Study in Survival: Conan Doyle Solves the Final Problem’. I won’t say anything further about it presently other than to recommend it.
I do have three of the White Eagle books: ‘First Steps on a Spiritual Path’, ‘Further Steps on a Spiritual Path’ and ‘The Quiet Mind’, but have not spent much time with any of them. It’s the usual ‘ars longa, vita brevis’ problem. Nevertheless, your bringing to my attention this collected set of teachings will no doubt inspire me to look deeper. I still have to follow up with you on Cora Richmond as well.
Let me see if I can come at my earlier comment another way by contradicting it in part by referencing two discarnate sources that I think are of extremely high-value in their respective ways. In a comment to Michael’s previous blog post, I made reference to Mary Stephenson Barnes’ ‘Long-Distance Calling’ as an addition to the automatic writing literature, a number of other examples of which I listed there. There is another outstanding example of this literature, one which often not included as part of it even though it clearly is. I’m referring to the text received by Helen Schucman via automatic writing published as ‘A Course in Miracles’. I have issues with the metaphysics of this text, which are essentially Gnostic, as Kenneth Wapnick, the long-time expositor of the ‘Course’, recognized and wrote on (cf. his ‘Love Does Not Condemn’), as I consider this ultimately to be a highly problematic and false view (to exemplify in a nutshell, Plotinus was right and the Gnostics were wrong). With that said, however, there is no getting around the fact that the ‘Course’ is an extraordinarily sophisticated and rich source of spiritual psychology and spiritual practice. I know of nothing else like it in the discarnate literature, which it is clearly a part of, in terms of this degree of sophistication and richness.
As a second contradicting example, let me reference a series of communications (‘scripts’ in the terminology of automatic writing) published in Theon Wright’s ‘The Open Door’ that I was sufficiently impressed by as to reconstruct into a single document, as discussed by our Michael and Michael Prescott.
https://whitecrowbooks.com/michaeltymn/month/2020/05/
https://shorturl.at/S2vED
This reconstructed document, ‘The Green Book’, offers an extremely high metaphysical vision of the nature of reality, one that accords extremely well with the Perennial Philosophy.
Both of these sets of materials are, in my view, high-water marks in the discarnate literature in the respective aspects I have indicated above. They are also notable by how little other discarnate material fully rises to their respective levels. The ‘Course’ is particularly noteworthy insofar as its general thrust pertains to our most urgent need, that of – in the language of the discarnate literature – ‘raising our vibrational state’ so that we may be well ‘distributed’ – to employ Beecher’s phrase – upon our death. What this really amounts to is improving the ‘quality’ of our consciousness. What this further amounts to is the displacement of characteristically or habitually ‘negative’ states of mind with characteristically or habitually ‘positive’ states of mind. Given the refractory nature of human egoity, clearly a long and difficult period of self-work is typically going to be necessary. The general term by which such an effort is often known is ‘mind training’. The lojong practices of Tibetan Buddhism offer one notable example but there are many others to be found in other traditions as well. In light of this larger understanding, the ‘Course’ may be understood as a contemporary, discarnately sourced, highly sophisticated course of mind training. With that said, why is this genre of instruction not ubiquitous in the discarnate literature given, again, how crucial and urgent the issue of improving the quality of our consciousness for the sake of our discarnate felicity is?
Let me leave it there,
Paul
Paul, Sun 15 Dec, 16:50
Paul,
I confess that I don’t know what the churches are teaching these days relative to “many mansions,” as I don’t belong to any of them. My only sources of information in this regard is friends—both Catholic and Protestant—who still subscribe to a specific denomination, and also from comments I see at various web site by others still subscribing to their faiths. It seems to be pretty much heaven or hell for all of them. Even my Catholic friends don’t seem to know what purgatory is all about. When I bring up the “many mansions” aspect, it seems all new to them and not worth further considering. They don’t have time to look into such matters.
I did accompany an elderly relative to Catholic mass a few years back. The priest seemed like a very intelligent and nice guy, but he was from a foreign country and it was difficult to understand him during the sermon. I’ve heard that this is a growing problem in the Catholic Church. Here in Hawaii, we apparently have a number of priests from the Philippines. They are fluent in English, but it’s difficult to pick up the pronunciation of certain words. Lose a word here and there and the whole sermon is meaningless.
A somewhat humorous example comes to mind, although not related to religion. When I was working in Guam as an insurance adjuster many years ago, one of the clerks there, who was from the Philippines, mentioned to me that an insured’s C-V had been totaled in an accident. I asked him what a C-V was. He was dumbfounded that I didn’t know what a C-V was. I finally figured out that he was referring to a Chevrolet, aka Chevy.
Michael Tymn, Sat 14 Dec, 20:02
David,
Thanks for the link to the White Eagle website. It seems to be an exceptionally constructed web page, beautifully done and easily navigated. - AOD
Amos Oliver Doyle, Sat 14 Dec, 14:27
I want to push back a bit against Paul’s dismissal of the spiritual teachings transmitted via mediums. Because of its open availability and the high quality of the teaching I would point you to https://www.whiteagleteachings.org White Eagle is a spirit entity channeled by Grace Cooke, and the teachings encompass a broad range of topics from the esoteric to mystical Christianity to practical instruction for daily life. It’s also nicely searchable via the provided link, so you can do a deep dive on any subject of interest to you.
These were all given as talks through the medium Grace Cooke, either as Sunday services for the members of the White Eagle Lodge and the inner teachings to a more select group. There are also a number of published books by White Eagle, presumably sourced from the 575 talks on the referenced web site. I present this as a refutation to Paul’s claim that channelled teachings “show poorly in comparison to traditional spiritual sources”.
Arguably, all spiritual teaching that has genuine merit, is divinely inspired, whether the teacher identifies as a medium or not. Human beings, left to their own devices are, spiritually speaking, rather dim witted. I had the good fortune of having a remarkable incarnate spiritual mentor in my youth and, for most people, an embodied representative of divine being is by far preferable to words on a page, however much those words may glow with the light of heavenly inspiration. The best sermons are those given by a life well lived.
David Chilstrom, Fri 13 Dec, 22:51
this is what is reported today about Luigi Mangione.
“These types of killers disassociate – it’s called cubing,” Constantine continued. “So when they’re in active pursuit, there is one personality. And then when he’s in relationships, he has another one… he’s able to disassociate from what is the sinister thoughts and ideas and radicalism that’s actually flooding through his mind.”
Just sayin. -AOD
Amos Oliver Doyle, Fri 13 Dec, 18:00
Dear Michael,
You state “I believe that the failure of mainstream religions to accept more than the heaven and hell dichotomy. with the exception of purgatory by the Catholics, is the biggest obstacle to belief in consciousness surviving death.” I understand where you are coming from, but in fact all the major religions have cosmological views that encompass multiple discarnate states, including multiple heavens and hells. The encyclopedia article on ‘Heaven and Hell’ in the “Encyclopedia of Religion”, 2nd Edition, Vol.6 (2005) would be a good place to start. As a likely well known point of reference, Paul writes in 2nd Corinthians: “I know a person in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows.” This is hardly an esoteric reference to multiple levels of heaven within Christianity. Similarly, the Qur’an speaks quite explicitly of multiple levels of Paradise.
To bring in a slightly more involved perspective, I might quote from Frithjof Schuon, “The Transcendent Unity of Religions” (1984):
“The Sufi Yahya Mu’adh ar-Razi said that ‘Paradise is the prison of the initiate as the world is the prison of the believer’: in other words, universal manifestation (al-khalq. or the Hindu samsara) including its beatific Center (As-Samawat or the Brahma-Loka) is metaphysically an (apparent) limitation (of the nonmanifested Reality: Allah, Brahma), just as formal manifestation is a limitation (of the supraformal but still manifested Reality: As-Samawat, Brahma-Loka) from an individual or exoteric point of view. However, such a formulation is exceptional: esoterism is in general implicit and not explicit, finding its normal expression through the medium of the Scriptural symbols: thus, to take Sufism as an example, the word ‘Paradise’ adopted from the Koranic terminology is employed to denote states, such as the ‘Paradise of the Essence’ (Jannat adh-Dhat) that are situated beyond every cosmic reality and, for still stronger reasons, beyond every individual determination. If, therefore, a Sufi refers to ‘Paradise’ as the prison of the initiate, he is merely considering it from the ordinary and cosmic point of view, which is that of the exoteric perspective, as he is obliged to do when he wishes to show the essential difference between the individual and universal or cosmic and metacosmic ways. It must therefore never be forgotten that the ‘Kingdom of Heaven’ of the Gospels and the ‘Paradise’ (Jannah) of the Koran, do not represent only conditioned states, but also, and simultaneously, aspects of the Unconditioned State of which they are only the most direct cosmic reflections.” (p.39)
Best,
Paul
Paul, Fri 13 Dec, 09:27
Dear David,
I expect you may well be right as to Marcella DeCou Hicks never having found a publisher for “The After-life of Henry Ward Beecher”.
In the Sept 25th, 1941 (No.73) issue of ‘The Psychic Observer’ (p.3) https://shorturl.at/V50pd, she remarks, “I have the manuscript of a new book, which we have called ‘The After-life of Henry Ward Beecher’ and taken down verbatim from his dictation, completely ready for publication should indications be that people want it. Meanwhile, I am sure that Dr. Beecher will continue with his short discourses through me for this paper.” This certainly has the feel of someone fishing for a publisher. It is possible that the manuscript may have been serialized in ‘The Psychic Observer’ instead, as your quoted remarks might suggest.
Thank you for sharing (the ostensible) Beecher’s remarks under ‘My Present Religion’ in April 25th, 1940 (No.39) of that same periodical. This is certainly of intrinsic interest. There may be more from Beecher via Hicks in that periodical, which has been nearly fully digitally archived [http://iapsop.com/archive/materials/psychic_observer/], but it would have to be gone through in detail, a laborious task. A search on Beecher through the IAPSOP search engine turned up a few things, including the article you kindly linked, but there may be more, as I expect the search function is imperfect given the nature of the scanned text. As for ‘My Present Religion’, I rather like what Beecher has to say here, but it needs to be framed within a certain context, insofar as what he is critiquing is not religion as such, but rather ‘religion’ as he had known it in his life, that is, a certain expression of American Protestant Christianity. The dogmas he critiques – the vicarious atonement, the Trinity, salvation by faith – are dogmas I would also critique, but again, these are dogmas not of religion as such, but rather of a particular expression, one which Beecher was intimately connected to.
In this regard, reflections I made a number of years ago to this blog are pertinent here and may bear repeating:
The real question here is the possible relation between a given religious faith and practice, on the one hand, and the collective testimony of discarnate communication, on the other. There are many shallow religious individuals – some in positions of religious authority – but ultimately, a religion has to be judged by its best lights, by the best of what it has to offer. The same is also true of the discarnate testimony we possess. My own view is that where this discarnate testimony shines, and really offers a vision, clarity and guidance to be found nowhere else, is in its description of posthumous existence, both its nature and its stages. However, in other domains such as metaphysics, ontology, spiritual practice, spiritual guidance and formal supports such as sacred art, there are clear limitations in this collective testimony. By way of example, the most comprehensive spiritualist texts – such as those by Allan Kardec or William Stainton Moses – tend, for all their value, to show poorly in comparison to traditional spiritual sources, such as Igumen Chariton’s “The Art of Prayer” on spiritual practice or Shankaracharya’s “Vivekachudamani” on metaphysics.
Although spiritualists often engage in shallow polemics against ‘creedal dogma’, ‘blind faith’ and ‘ossified or corrupted religion’ – often prompted by similarly shallow polemics by the religious against discarnate communication – these are essentially unsubstantial attacks, often amounting to no more than throwaway lines. My own view is that the collective discarnate testimony we possess is best treated as a precious ancillary to the religious traditions – more particularly to a given individual’s particular faith tradition – even if this will, in the nature of things, lead to a certain tension with the narrower aspects of one’s faith. The discarnately communicating Myers, for example, may be seen in such a light, insofar as he is explicitly supportive of the teaching of Christ, while providing a deeper discarnate view than is readily available in the Churches. Swedenborg, also, may be seen in such a light.
This brings me full circle to my essential point. The posthumous literature that we have is, for those with ears to hear, a precious resource, the most comprehensive and satisfying description of posthumous reality that we have from any source, including the religious traditions taken in all their philosophic, mystical and spiritual richness. Yet, we should also acknowledge what this literature does not adequately address and be fully prepared to seek better sources elsewhere. This pertains most critically to the question of spiritual maturation and purification so crucial to our own posthumous felicity.
All best regards,
Paul
Paul Smith, Fri 13 Dec, 06:15
Many thanks to all for the interesting and meaningful comments, as well as for the references and links. I believe that the failure of mainstream religions to accept more than the heaven and hell dichotomy. with the exception of purgatory by the Catholics, is the biggest obstacle to belief in consciousness surviving death. The “many realms” offered in the discussions we’ve had here would do much to bring the “fallen” back to a belief in a larger life, but progress in this respect is very slow.
As for the recent New York shooting and the fact that the guy is being made into a folk hero while receiving many donations for his defense is sickening. Maybe he has multiple personalities, but that could be argued many criminal acts. I don’t see it as defense, even if the court allowed a psychiatrist to argue that. Perhaps a mitigating factor in the final sentencing, but not much more. From what I’ve heard, I don’t think mainstream psychiatry is close to accepting the idea that multiple personalities are the result of earthbound spirits penetrating the aura of the accused and altering his moral compass. I don’t know.
Thanks again.
Mike
Michael Tymn, Thu 12 Dec, 21:45
Thanks David Chilstrom for “My Present Religion” by Henry Ward Beecher, through Marcella DeCou Hicks. I actually find it agreeable with my own thoughts. Whether or not they are actually Marcella Hicks’s thoughts or Beecher’s is irrelevant for me. - AOD
“And as for answering the profound questions that some seekers think it necessary to ask concerning the BEGINNING of all life, or the ULTIMATE END of all effort, or the WHY of infinity, or WHENCE came God, I can only say that all these things are quite as much a mystery to us in these elementary spheres as they are to you of earth. I do not know the answers to any of these questions nor have I ever met any spirit soul who knows the answers, although many foolish ones profess such knowledge. It may be disillusioning to some of you, but it is nevertheless a fact, that a human being does not become imbued with all knowledge and all wisdom by reason of discarding his house of clay and betaking his spirit soul to its heavenly home. We know more only as we learn more and it takes many years, measured in earth time, to really master the most elementary fundamentals.”
Ammos Oliver Doyle, Thu 12 Dec, 21:00
I guess I have to go on a rant about references to alleged information from spirit entities about the structure of the spirit world. That is, there are multiple people who channel information from spirits describing the structure (vibrations, planes, spheres etc.) of the spirit world, for example, Jane Roberts, Stainton Moses, Frederic Myers, George Vale Owen, Cora Richman, and every other Tom Dick and Harry who writes books about the hereafter. Sometimes they agree with each other and at other times they do not agree so what is one to believe? They often include the “Earth Plane” as the lowest level of these planes, (usually seven in number).
Why is it that spirits who transition from the lowest level (Earth) upon transitioning suddenly know the structure of the universe. Why is that? If the Earth plane is one of the levels, then why aren’t those of us who live here also privy to that information? What is so special about moving to plane ‘numero dos?’
If one reads, studies, investigates enough of these reports one begins to feel as if one is rummaging through a garbage can of opinions. I have to say that the more I read about the spirit world the less I believe that the spirit world actually exists.
However, there are some things that cause me to wonder about it. First and foremost, I have to place medium Matt Fraser at the top of the list. If his videos are not highly selected and or edited, then there has to be some explanation, not yet know to science, for how he knows the information about the deceased family members of the people for whom he reads. I have watched many of his videos of readings and his knowledge of deceased persons is astounding. And as presented in the videos, 100% accurate. The positive effects that his readings have on the sitters is heartwarming to watch. Matt Fraser is a modern medium a thousand times better than those we revere from 100 years or more ago.
Second, many of the “near death experiences” and related experiences are difficult to explain without considering that they are real incursions into another reality by people who are leaving this one. Whether they are long-lasting or not, no one knows.
Third, I would have to place reports of reincarnation by children under 5 years old. Many of the things those little children report have been verified as actually part of a deceased person’s life. Maybe it is ESP but it is difficult to believe that a 2-year- old would want to visit his “wife,’ smoke cigarettes, and drink whisky just by picking up information through “Super-Psi”. The persistence of scars and phobias from a past life is difficult to explain also.
Patience Worth, whom I have studied for years now, who, when asked, would not describe “heaven” as she said that she would not want to mar God’s creation by trying to describe it. that is, she felt that she could not do justice to it. All she would say it that the afterlife is like returning to “yesteryear’ or going to the “marketplace.” Personally, having lived in this day and age, I would look forward to returning to “yesteryear.” - AOD
Amos Oliver Doyle, Thu 12 Dec, 20:05
Paul - Regarding Marcella DeCou Hicks book on the afterlife of Beecher, it’s quite possible that it never found a publisher. Beecher was interested in creating a “series of articles for the ‘Observing Paper:’” I found what may be one in that series in the April 25, 1940 edition of the Psychic Observer entitled “My Religion”. I’ve reproduced it at https://chilstrom.space/my-present-religion/ . It gives interesting insight into how a liberal minded minister of conventional faith might come to terms with his earthly convictions. As Beecher put it: “Not till I passed out of earth life did I learn the inconsequence, I might even say, the futility of dogmatic theology. It just has no place in the scheme of things as I find them over here.”
DAVID CHILSTROM, Thu 12 Dec, 19:36
Concerning the recent murder of the insurance executive by a young well-to-do educated man, I find it interesting that no psychiatrist has opined about the possibility that this could be a case of multiple personality (dissociative identity disorder) or spirit possession. If dissociative identity disorder is a real diagnosis (F44.81 and 300.12) then why isn’t some psychiatrist who specializes in this disorder opining that that psychiatric illness might be relevant to this case? The accused had one or more ID cards and said that someone must have planted the money in his backpack, it wasn’t him. This is not to mention the 180 degree change in his personality and lack of contact with his family for many months.
Why is no one looking into parental mental or physical abuse as causative of a possible DID. I suspect that all of his life the expectations for this man were a heavy burden for him and who knows what pressures were put on him to carry on the family traditions. There are other similar cases of rich fathers physically or sexually abusing their young sons, e.g. Menendez family.
Well, my point relevant to this blog is why aren’t psychiatrists who treat this disorder bringing this possibility before the public?
I think it suggests that a spiritual reality has a long way to go in this country before it is accepted by the general public, insurance companies and the medical community. And anyone, including psychiatrists who would claim spirit possession or multiple personalities as related to causation in this murder, would most likely lose whatever status they might have in the workplace and in the community if not lose their license and laughed out of town. (This may not be the case if it had happened in Brazil, a country where Spiritists are accepted and active in medical care and treatment.) - AOD
Amos Oliver Doyle, Thu 12 Dec, 19:09
Dear Michael,
I am loathe to too much monopolize the comment thread, but thought it worth passing along that I was able to find Marcella DeCou Hicks, “Eternal Verities” (1937) on HathiTrust https://shorturl.at/Mh9bc. As a service, I’ve uploaded the complete document to Scribd: http://www.scribd.com/document/803756474/Marcella-DeCou-Hicks-Eternal-Verities
Of particular interest is the chapter on ‘Vibration’ (Ch.5) [starting at p.70 in the HathiTrust link], for which the author claims direct inspiration from the discarnate Beecher. I did not find it a particularly satisfying chapter, despite its intrinsic topical interest, as it leaves unresolved the precise nature of vibration in a discarnate context. But this is a problem in the literature more generally. With that said, two passages did stand out as of significant interest.
In the first, one finds the same understanding expressed by the discarnate Beecher in your post, one common to the discarnate literature, but expressed with a particular clarity:
“Death has been called ‘the great leveller’, but nothing could be farther from the truth. Death is in fact the great divider, the great distributor. Beyond the gates of death there can be no pretense, no hypocrisy, and each individual takes the place he has actually earned and really deserves. He cannot beg the issue nor can he fool anybody in the spirit world. In passing from the physical it is one of God’s immutable laws that each spirit shall gravitate naturally to that group to which his conduct on earth has synchronized his vibration rate. And since the gradations of spiritual vibrations are literally infinite, just so spiritual groups are infinite in number. So death instead of being a leveller is exactly the opposite because through so-called death each spirit identity is relegated to his own particular place and group in the hereafter-which places and groups differ as widely as can be conceived of.” (p.64)
In the second one finds an extremely valuable – if seen aright – listing of what might be viewed as approaches and qualities for the ‘raising’, ‘acceleration’ or ‘refinement’ of one’s vibration, whether in this life or in the next, which may redound on the individual in the most direct way in terms of his own discarnate ‘distribution’:
“The higher one is able to raise both his physical and spiritual vibrations, the greater are his possibilities of direct contact with high discarnate forces. Spiritual vibration is accelerated or raised through spiritual aspiration, through desire and reaching out for the highest and best in spiritual expression, through purity and unselfishness, through rendering service to humanity, through disseminating truth and through the study and practice of truth, through living each day in every way emulating the life of Jesus and to the glory of God.” [N.B. The Christian inflection at the end may generalized rather than taken in any narrow creedal sense.] (p.63)
This may be brought into the context of similar advice from other sources in order to bring the point home more forcefully:
From the discarnate Frances Banks in Helen Greaves, “Testimony of Light” (1969):
“And there are three ways in which to carry it [individual progression] out here. By self-judgment, and true assessment of experiences; by service to one’s fellows; and by aspiration.” (p.60)
“The vision is still with me, complete and satisfying; the hope of further teaching and progress. I must make myself ready by continued service, as well as my facing myself and learning of my defects, ready for that transition to a sphere for which my whole soul yearns.” (p.75)
“More and more important therefore and invaluable, is the inner life of meditation and contemplation and at-one-ment with Divine Beauty and Truth. (p.59)
From the discarnate W.T. Stead in Estelle Stead, “Life Eternal” (1933):
What Qualities in the Earth-Life Lead to Most Rapid Progression on Our Side?
“That is a most important question, and in order to make my reply to that clear to you, I must give you a diagram. This is a general statement, and I must define the word spirituality. To be spiritual you must have trodden down the coarser and heavier parts of your nature to such an extent that you have practically forgotten them. You may do this through a love of your fellows: through religious ecstasy: through a desire to be perfect in any form of art: through courage: through any kind of work which you can do with all your might, and for the glory of God: through honesty in industry: through pity: and through the bearing of pain for yourself or others without complaint. All these things build a house worth living in on the other side. But let me extend a little. A sense of value is necessary for the accomplishment of anything that is worthwhile. He who accepts the values that are merely conventional, and is too indolent to search his own soul and find the right values, cannot go far on the spiritual road.” (p.54)
From the out-of-body explorer Jurgen Ziewe, on the basis of his wide-ranging experience as a ‘discarnate visitor’, in his “Elysium Unveiled: A Visual Odyssey of Life Eternal” (2023):
“So what are the psychologic prerequisites to take us into the Astral ‘Summer Land’ or, further still, into the ‘Astral Heavens’? First and foremost, we will have overcome our attachments to negative mindsets and become used to leading a life of psychological hygiene. That means living life through the heart, a life of care, paying attention to others, a life of love and appreciation. Appreciation and gratitude are the most important faculties to nurture while still on earth to get our passport into Heaven.” (p.128)
“When we begin to realize that it is love, appreciation and compassion which provides the most potent foundation to acquire knowledge and wisdom, we not only achieve our goals here on earth in the best possible way, but we also lay the groundwork for an exhilarating, inspired and rewarding infinite future which stretches before us without limitation.” (p.156)
The close parallelism of what I have termed ‘approaches and qualities’ between these four independent sources is, and should be, striking. We all have ‘work to do’ upon ourselves and the collective testimonies above give at least an initial guidance on how it might be best done. Given the discarnate consequences, for good or ill, this ‘work’ is the nothing short of the most urgent that we might attend to in our time here.
Best,
Paul
Paul Smith, Thu 12 Dec, 06:57
Don et alia,
I believe that you were looking at the question where do spirits come from? “Any attempt to address the “where did it come from” aspect of the spirit-world is probably going to involve a dive into general impressions since, for the obvious reasons, we have no detailed input from predecessors who were actually there.”
A. The soul we believe to be co-existent with God, and therefore eternal. We believe it ever had an existence as a distinct entity, and we believe it will ever continue to have an existence; but that it will perpetually change its form of manifestations so that while you recognize it by its external expressions, you will be apt to consider that it has changed states, has lost its priority ; but it is not so. It is the same yesterday, to-day, and forever.
I would like to give all a small Christmas present. Internet Archive just cleaned this file from malware and it contains a story of William Bruce. (Yes it does sound to be a fake name but this was written in 1921 - never trust anyone from marketing) but it is a solid explanation of the mystery that we frequently discuss. William was trying to understand how a medium operates.
The AMERICAN SOCIETY for PSYCHICAL RESEARCH article was based on letters to Dr Hyslop. Page 520
“Mrs. Chenoweth is the only medium I have ever seen. I have all my life had indications of telepathy, and believing that Mrs. Chenoweth’s powers are largely telepathic, whether with individuals in or out of the flesh, I questioned her when in her subjective state as to just what she was aware of as she spoke of an object or apparently repeated a sentence. I am convinced that what she sees or hears is simply a telepathic communication, that is when she spoke to me of seeing Mr. Johns, or a bridge, or a comb, she got a mental visual picture of them, and did not actually see the spirit of Mr. Johns or of the bridge or of the comb.
https://shorturl.at/hricx
Merry Christmas
William Bruce
Bruce, Tue 10 Dec, 09:58
Comments by Raymond Lodge from my book, “Dead Men Talking.”
[Lady Lodge asked Raymond if all there are of the same rank and grade.] “Rank doesn’t count as a virtue. High rank comes by being virtuous. Those who have been virtuous have to pass through lower ranks to understand things. All go on to the astral first, just for a little.”
He doesn’t remember being on the astral himself. He thinks where he is now, he is about third. Summerland, Homeland, some call it. It is a very happy medium. The very highest can come to visit you, and yet it is just sufficiently near the earth plane to get to those on earth. He thinks you have the best of it here, so far as he can see.
“Mother, I went to a gorgeous place the other day…I was permitted so that I might see what was going on the Highest Sphere. Generally, the High Spirits come to us.” [Sir Oliver recorded that he was omitting Raymond’s description of that High Sphere from the book, because he felt it unwise to relate an experience of a kind which may be imagined, but he continued with Raymond’s further discourse with Lady Lodge.]
“I felt exalted, purified, lifted up. I was kneeling. I couldn’t stand up, I wanted to kneel. Mother, I thrilled from head to foot. He didn’t come near me, and I didn’t feel I wanted to go near him. Didn’t feel I ought. The Voice was like a bell. I can’t tell you what he was dressed or robed in. All seemed a mixture of shining colours.”
“.... can you imagine what I felt like when he put those beautiful rays on to me? I don’t know what I’ve ever done that I should have been given that wonderful experience. I never thought of such a thing being possible, not at any rate for years, and years, and years. No one could tell what I felt, I can’t explain it.”
[Lady Lodge asked if others will understand it.] “I know father and you will, but I want the others to try. I can’t put it into words. I didn’t walk, I had to be taken back to Summerland, I don’t know what happened to me. If you could faint with delight. Weren’t those beautiful words?”
Michael Tymn, Sat 7 Dec, 23:25
Dear Michael,
You will no doubt find interesting that, apparently, Marcella De Cou Hicks, the medium through which we have the present communications, wrote a book, dictated to her by Beecher, titled “The After-Life of Henry Ward Beecher”. She references the completion of the manuscript for this book in ‘The Psychic Observer’, April 10th, 1939, pg.2, col.4, halfway down the column. https://shorturl.at/tloVf All in all, the communications shared by (the ostensible) Beecher in your two posts (and the post to follow) are, I would judge, well considered, well informed and in good agreement with the general consensus view to be found in the literature (apart from that matter of the exact stratification of levels that I raised in my prior comment), and I would be very interested to read the book she mentions. However, I can find no reference to it when searching under either the title or the author through Google, Internet Archive, The Library of Congress or WorldCat Interlibrary Loan. Nor can I find reference on IAPSOP or SSOC. http://iapsop.com/search.html If anyone can do better, it would be good to mention it in this comment thread. As a concluding side note, it is amusing to note at the top of col.2 on the same page referenced above, Marcella De Cou Hicks’ other books are listed, the last of which is titled, “Studies in Boy-Ology”. I can only wonder what that is about!
Best,
Paul
Paul, Sat 7 Dec, 19:15
To build on David’s remarks, Beecher himself is actually very effective in the first posted section of his account (https://shorturl.at/y0ffH) in dismantling the naive ‘spatial’ notion as to where the ‘next world’ is. To quote the most pertinent part of this earlier discourse:
“It seems to me, as I listen to people on earth discussing the spirit worlds, that most folks conceive of them as a series of disks, or flatlands, rising one above the other in graduated or ever increasing importance and inhabited by souls at certain definite levels of development. The general idea seems to be that after one has finished his lessons on one disk, he soars, climbs, flies, jumps, or takes the escalator to the next higher disk. There are even folks who can tell you exactly how many miles the spirit world is above the earth. They forget that what is above the earth in daytime, is below it at night. This whole idea is so cut and dried as to be actually mechanical in concept and, my child, nothing could be farther from the actual conditions.”
It is worth attending to Beecher’s specific terminology for the distinct vibrational levels he describes, From Michael’s first post:
“As I understand it, surrounding such individual inhabited planet are seven main zones of which the planet itself might be called the core…From the accepted fact of these seven zones, which seem to have been known to most ancient peoples, comes, I believe, all the references to ‘seventh heaven’ bound in the literature of mysticism, occultism, and the like. Each zone is composed of an infinite number of spheres or units, which in turn are composed of an infinite number of planes or divisions. Each plane or division in its turn, is made up of lesser phases, each phase containing countless groups of varying vibration rates. So that there is no gradation of spirituality or progress that is not provided for with exactitude. ...In every cycle, the lowest plane of the first sphere is the three dimensional world created as substance matter and inhabited by spirit-souls in some manner of physical expression. Thus this earth is the lowest plane of the cycle of spiritual evolvement which its human inhabitants must encompass in their progression toward God-hood. Understand that there are realms of progress out in infinitude that one enters when he has completed his own cycle, or, in other words, completed all the development that can accrue to him up to and through the seventh zone.”
And from this present post:
“When a spirit-soul tells you that he has progressed to the third, four, or fifth plane, he must mean – of the first sphere of the first zone of which earth itself is the first plane. Because any spirit-soul qualified to work in any plane of the second sphere will probably have lost all desire to contact mortality and its problems.”
So, to extract the general structure from these passages, as given in Beecher’s terminology, there are seven principal zones, then within each zone innumerable spheres (or units), then within each sphere innumerable planes (or divisions), then within each plane innumerable phases. All are, nevertheless, ‘vibrationally graded’ along a continuum. We, as ‘physically’ embodied souls (or perhaps the physically embodied portion or aspect of our larger soul identity), presently inhabit the ‘core’ ‘below’ the first (properly discarnate) zone. But then he states that we inhabit the “lowest plane of the first sphere”. In the next section of Beecher’s comments that Michael is yet to post, he states “I am told that in some of the phases of the second plane that vibrate in harmony with earth conditions, there are those who still have desires for earthly manifestations. hungers, cravings and longings for earthly expressions.” This suggests that earthly embodiment is situated in the first plane of the first sphere of the first zone and that the most immediately ‘adjacent’ spiritual condition is situated in the second plane of the first sphere of the first zone. He further refers on more than one occasion to the ‘earth plane’, which supports that the distinction between earthly embodiment and the most adjacent ‘spiritual’ embodiment lies at the level of adjacent vibratory planes in his schema.
Let’s say that the ‘second plane’ corresponds to the Summerland of the Spiritualists or the ‘Illusion Land’ of Myers (as per ‘The Road to Immortality’), it would seem that the next level up, associated with the second death, would be the third plane. The point of question with this schema is that all this is within the first sphere of the first zone, which suggests a vast number of levels ‘above’ or ‘beyond’ those conveyed in other sources. As such, I don’t know what to make of it. The general thrust of the schema, that of fine progression through vibratory levels, from coarse to refined, is perfectly in keeping with numerous other independent communications, but the exact schema here presented is, so far as I am aware, unique to Beecher and thus open to question. This is a more general problem in the literature: there is very high agreement regarding the general picture, but poor agreement on the exact number and breakdown of levels. Why should this be? One point to bear in mind is that discarnate communicators do not have direct knowledge of the entire structure of creation, but are limited in discarnate experience to their own vibratory level (or ‘below’ if they have ventured). They do not have access to higher vibratory levels, save under rare, highly specific, highly temporary conditions (typically involving an escort). As such, they are ‘working in the dark’ with regard to the nature and strata of all the ‘finer’ levels ‘above’ their own. Their knowledge of such, such as they have it, is inevitably second-hand, just as ours is.
Best,
Paul
Paul Smith, Sat 7 Dec, 06:14
As yet another straw, to add to the thick bundle of accounts that tell essentially the same story, that the spirit realm is a progressive, multi-tiered state, Beecher’s observations are a worthy addition. One of the problems in communicating an accurate description, is our tendency to frame a map of the spirit world in spatial terms that may have little applicability to the reality. Beecher’s use of the term “phase” which implies a particular stage of development or unfoldment, is helpful in breaking out of the well worn conventions of planes and spheres as descriptions of the topography of the hereafter. And “zone” is an interesting addition as well.
Coincidentally, I recently came across the poem “The Other World” by Beecher’s sister Harriet Beecher Stowe which begins:
It lies around us like a cloud—
A world we do not see;
Yet the sweet closing of an eye
May bring us there to be.
And it ends with the refrain:
Let death between us be as naught—
A dried and vanished stream;
Your joy be the reality,
Our suffering life the dream.
You can Google the poem or read the copy posted on my blog at https://chilstrom.space
What the poem and Henry Ward Beecher’s remarks suggest, is the closeness between this world and that. “The second plane of spirit life is in and all about the earth itself, not in some remote part of space.” Now here he is fixing the second plane in space, but perhaps that spatial proximity serves in transiting to and from the terrestrial realm as well as facilitating communication. In any event, it is comforting to think that “the sweet closing of an eye may bring us there to be.”
Regards,
David Chilstrom
David Chilstrom, Fri 6 Dec, 21:10
Brian,
I agree that we have to question all of it while recognizing that it is mostly symbolic, metaphorical, allegorical, convoluted and possibly misinterpreted on this side or the other side. As the Bible says, we should DISCERN all the messages and hold on to only what is good, or words to that effect. My next blog will deal somewhat with this.
Michael Tymn, Thu 5 Dec, 21:59
Dear Brian,
As a brief reply to your comment, in Michael’s earlier post here:
https://shorturl.at/y0ffH (the (ostensible) Beecher states, “In a school, children of all grades mingle together in the same building, but for class work each group is by itself. The twelfth grader has nothing in common with the primary pupil and so they do not affiliate. As the student progresses he goes on to college, then to the university, and possibly post-graduate work in some great foreign university, taking one degree after another. He progresses into a higher and more advanced group of educators and intellectuals as he grows and develops mentally,...” which pushes the educational metaphor even further than in this present post. Nevertheless, I hardly see this kind of metaphoric description as disqualifying, but rather a reasonably apt means of framing the general ‘progressive structure’ of discarnate reality, one that has been described in similar terms, sans collegiate metaphors, in numerous other sources. In particular, the fine stratification of discarnate reality into a hierarchy of levels, planes or similar is ubiquitous in the discarnate literature. Needless to say, another communicator might well have chosen another metaphor better suited to his experience and background. None of this should be surprising.
With all this said, your statement that the alleged spirit may not be telling the truth or know what he is talking about is a very pertinent one. The literature speaks of low ‘mischievous spirits’ who like to mislead individuals. A notable case in the literature is the book ‘The Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts’. Nevertheless, this sort of thing appears to be very much the exception rather than the rule. As for ‘alleged’ spirits possibly not knowing what they are talking about, this is also a factor to bear very much in mind and is typically more of an issue than ‘lying’ or ‘deceiving’ spirits. It is well known that those deceased who are most able and likely to ‘communicate back’ are those who are ‘greenest’ on the other side, often lacking mature judgment, knowledge or a wider view. The discarnate are ‘people’, not unlike the incarnate. People come in all varieties, including both wise and ignorant. As I like to put it, you have to size people up discarnately just as you have to do so incarnately. Or, to use a more archaic language, ‘test the spirits’. How to do this? Two principal ways: First, establish qualifications and bona fides wherever possible (thus the extreme value of Frederic Myers’ communications, for example). Second, cross-correlate descriptions and claims across multiple disconnected sources for consistency and accept nothing on the basis of a single claim. While absolute certitude will likely escape our compass, relative certitude may be reasonably established on these bases.
Best,
Paul
Paul Smith, Thu 5 Dec, 20:09
Bruce…
All very interesting of course…but I’m a bit mystified as to what “question” of mine you’re referring to?????
Thanks…
Don Porteous, Thu 5 Dec, 12:35
Don and Paul,
Don your question has prompted a message which comes from a series of questions and answers from a little known book. Paul related the joy of his discovery of his forgotten reference book which acts as a link to Howard E Lee preface and my finding of Lee’s book (my adventure in to Spiritualism). Paul’s generosity of spirit flowed in to various reading paths. Thanks for the present.
In a similar fashion I came across this little known book which arrived only yesterday by a chance mention. I followed the lead.
I started to explore it as I felt that it was important to our discussions. Don’s question showed me the relevance to discussions. This is a round about way of saying I sometimes get a heads up by the spirit team about the nature of future discussions. The information for Don is as follows:
Flashes of Light from the Spirit Land through the mediumship of Mrs. J.H. Conant
https://shorturl.at/rMiaC
P 53
The foreword has the background of the band of spirits forming The Banner of Light magazine and the role of the medium Mrs Conant “It is said by those who know her well that she possesses no intellectual or literary abilities…But in this work are more than two hundred pages of impromptu answers, through Mrs. Conant, verbatim as they fell from her lips. And as such they are a prolonged miracle of correct grammar, of perspicuity and relevancy. Occasionally very good versification, bordering at times upon good poetry, flows forth from her lips; yet in her normal state nothing of the kind ever came from her tongue or pen.
Q. As human souls unfold in spirit-life, will they also pass farther away from our earth? If so, will the memory of having lived upon the earth finally become obliterated from their minds?
A.. The soul is not bound to any special locality. It exists independent of locality. It is not at all necessary that the soul should pass away from the earth and its conditions after it rises from a state of ignorance to a state of wisdom, or from unhappiness to happiness, for there are quite as many souls in the kingdom of wisdom on the earth as anywhere else ; and quite as many souls in the kingdom of heaven even, here upon earth, as in the farthest condition of human existence that you are able to conceive of. The soul is not governed by localities, or by the conditions of time. It is of itself a thing eternal. It belongs to eternity, and progresses according to the laws of eternal life.
Q. Was there ever a period in the history of man when his soul was not an immortal entity?
A. The soul we believe to be co-existent with God, and therefore eternal. We believe it ever had an existence as a distinct entity, and we believe it will ever continue to have an existence; but that it will perpetually change its form of manifestations so that while you recognize it by its external expressions, you will be apt to consider that it has changed states, has lost its priority ; but it is not so. It is the same yesterday, to-day, and forever.
By William S. Channing, Oct. 10, 1887.
Thanks,
Bruce
Bruce Williams, Wed 4 Dec, 05:22
Michael,
Another fascinating blog. It sounds like the spirit of clergyman Henry Ward Beecher was significantly influenced by his earthly attendance at Amherst College during the peak of the 2nd Great Awakening. He describes the nature of reality as a university setting in which one takes courses and advances further in her studies with endless opportunities for advancement.
Even the “realms of darkness” seem to be a place with levels of darkness. He speaks of planes and spheres and zones and phases with ranks and files. He even points out that he is using collegiate metaphors. “Some subjects are required and others are elective…One may skip a grade…and return for post-graduate work.”
May I ask if the nature of reality has changed from the infinite past prior to the invention of the university setting? Or did universities get invented because they are expressions of the fundamental way that life works? Wouldn’t neanderthal “spirits” have a very different way of enlightening us as to the nature of reality? Or how would “spirits” of Mesopotamia in 3,200 B.C. describe the nature of reality?
It seems to me that any alleged communications from the “dead” should be suspect, first for their authenticity alone, but then even if we are truly hearing from a surviving spirit, why would we assume he is telling the truth or that he knows what he’s talking about? We have brilliant and ignorant people here. It seems likely there are the same throughout the universe.
Anyway, I am grateful to you for all the work you put into these blogs and I look forward to the next one.
Gratefully,
Brian Anthony Kraemer
1310 Arbutus Ave. Unit 2
Chico, CA 95926-2632
(530) 321-3964 (cell)
Brian Kraemer, Wed 4 Dec, 01:48
Stafford Betty…
Interesting question. Any attempt to address the “where did it come from” aspect of the spirit-world is probably going to involve a dive into general impressions since, for the obvious reasons, we have no detailed input from predecessors who were actually there.
Whatever information we do have, starting with Swedenborg, later from Andrew Davis and the mid-1800’s crew, and so on, would seem to indicate a world of spirit that preceded the world of matter, having come into existence as an “emanation” from the original “Source” (the One, the All, God, Ein Sof, whatever name floats your own particular boat.
No matter how we look at it, our material world would seem to be the “effect” of the original “cause”(a thought of God) with the world of spirit being an “intermediary effect.” (All of which opinion is worth precisely what you paid for it…)
Don Porteous, Tue 3 Dec, 13:04
Mike – good blog.
I find it interesting that the author talks about balls of light as being spirits. I sometimes wonder whether some of the balls of light that are reported as part of the UFO experience are also not intelligence in a spirit form.
Mike S
Michael Schmicker, Mon 2 Dec, 21:19
Thanks for this rare gem, Michael. I did not know about it previously or it would have featured in my most recent documentary, ‘Spirits Talking: Can they be Trusted?’ which is all about spirits reporting on the nature of the Other Side. You are without doubt the best-read authority on this older and obscure material.
Keith Parsons, Mon 2 Dec, 21:17
Beecher writes, “the spirit world is lighted by the radiance of its spiritual occupants.” I have long wondered where the spirit world came from. I’ve never thought it evolved like our planet or anything else grossly physical. But is there another way to look at the origin of the afterworld? I unthinkingly assumed it was created by some outside source.
Stafford Betty, Mon 2 Dec, 21:15
Thanks, Michael for another interesting blog. I feel that I have to comment about Hicks’ (Beecher’s) statement that, “[M]any times you have seen spirits, themselves manifesting only as lights, some time as pinpoints, some like flickering candle flames, some great balls of fire:”
I think it should be kept in mind that there are many ophthalmologic reasons for “pinpoints” and “flickering” light that one may see that are due to physiological reasons that may not have been considered by Mediums and others of years ago. They are not manifestations of spirit entities. I myself just sneezed and had several pinpoints of light (phosphenes) speed across my vision. In addition, I am plagued by “scintillating scotomas” from time to time which are zig-zag arcs of colored lights which could be described as “flickering candle flames.” They last about 20 minutes in my vision. I have also seen flashes of light due to detaching or tugging vitreous in the past. There are other eye conditions such a detached retina and brain problems which produce a sensation of light. And, recently I saw “ball lightning” inside of my house, but that was during a thunderstorm and there was no reason to believe that it was a spirit trying to contact me.
Just saying, but I think there is the possibility that when one sees these various physiological light sensations that one should not jump to the conclusion that they are spirits. - AOD
Amos Oliver Doyle, Mon 2 Dec, 19:38
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