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“Higher level spirits” On Truth, God, Jesus, & The Resurrection

Posted on 13 February 2023, 7:25

“Our work is an organized missionary effort to disseminate Truth, without which the spiritual life of your world would die.  Of religion there is but little amongst you, and what little there is has, in most cases, lost its power to influence life and action. The vitality has gone, and the appearance alone remains. As it was in the time of Christ, so now. Men are anxiously looking for something that is to come.”

cross

So communicated the spirit known as Imperator through the mediumship of William Stainton Moses, an Anglican priest who developed mediumistic abilities in 1872. It was explained that messages seemingly coming from one spirit in the Imperator group of 49 spirits were usually collective messages from many spirits in the group, even if only one spirit seemed to be communicating. It was further explained that the lack of interest by humans makes it difficult for them to get through to our world. “Men care little for being taught; they seek rather to be amused. We do what we can, hampered by many disadvantages, attacked on the one side by the ceaseless machinations of spiritual foes, and hindered from advance on the other by the dead, cold faith of men, or his undeveloped and unreceptive spirit.” (See prior blog for more background on Moses and the Imperator group of 49. References to Imperator as “he” or “they” should not be construed as an attempt at “woke” journalism.). 

It was explained that higher spirits can exist for only a short time in our atmosphere, and that it is often difficult for them to communicate with those on the earth plane, while spirits more recently departed are more able to get through. “Many spirits, with the best of intentions, communicate the most erroneous doctrines as they have not lost the theological fog gathered during earth lives,” Imperator continued. “Those of whom you speak may be unknowingly the agents of adversaries, who seek to perpetuate doctrines which we might fight against with determined energy. We have descended to your world for nothing else than to reveal Truth to man.”                                                                                                                                     

Moses or one of the sitters in his small circle asked what was meant by Truth.  “If by Truth you mean accurate and precise statements about matters which, from their nature, transcend human knowledge, then no doubt neither we nor any can reveal to you exact Truth, seeing that you are not capable of understanding it,” Imperator responded. “But if you mean, as you should, a higher revelation of facts which concern man to know, which will develop his intelligence, and raise him to an advanced plane of knowledge, then we have come for no other purpose than to reveal to you such Truth. It is the very object of our mission. We come neither to amuse nor to astonish, but only to instruct and develop. All that we do has its end the revealing of higher and more extended views of truth.”

At a different sitting, Imperator said, “We can no more tell you of our life than you can convey to a deaf and dumb and blind man the true notions of your world.”

Earlier, Dr. Stanhope Speer, a member of the circle who sat with Moses, who was in a trance state, asked about the teachings of the Church. “The doctrines taught by the Church are faulty,” one of the 49 called Elliotson responded. “The life of the Man Christ Jesus on earth was a pattern life, intended for the example of man. But, in so far as it was deemed to be an atonement by way of a sacrifice for sin, this was a falsehood, degrading to God, degrading to that pure and stainless Spirit, to whom such things were falsely attributed, and misleading to souls who rest on blind faith, and falsely imagine their credulity would be accounted a virtue.”

Elliotson went on to state that God reveals to man that which he is able to bear, so that it is progressive. Dr. Speer asked for clarification of the text that says “the blood of Jesus Christ cleanest all from sin.”  Elliotson replied: “Set aside a doctrine so cold, so hard, so bitter, and take the spiritual meaning that underlies Christ’s life and teaching. The pattern life is to you the model of what many may become, pure and holy, ennobled by suffering, and elevated by charity.  To that life you may look; following it will rescue you from sin, and lead you to that which is noble. You err in following too closely the words of fallible men or building on them an edifice the foundation of which is error, and the superstructure fallacy.”

After explaining that God, to his understanding, is not of a limited personality and had never been enshrined in a human body, Elliotson cautioned that it is a fatal error to reduce God to a Force or some anthropomorphic delusion.  “In early days, man framed a god for himself, a human tyrant, yea, worse than man can be. God is really an informing, energizing Spirit. He supplies the light and love that give beauty to all around you. The Divine Life is brought home to you in the life of Christ. God is not a force, nor the impersonal entity you call Nature.”

Theophilus, another of the 49, added: “Ritual and ceremonial and creed have so filled the thoughts of your churchmen that they have set aside the idea of spirit that underlies them. The first mark of a fading faith is that lack of spirituality which leads men to give up the unseen world, and to busy themselves with the useless husks that surround it. When men are cumbered with dogmas and creeds of human invention, and leave out of view the spiritual truths that underlie them, it is clear that faith is on the wane.”

Imperator said that he was “inclined to believe” that the claims of Jesus were overstated and that the disciples who recorded them did so in a far stronger sense than He Himself would have. “Doubtless, He did claim for Himself a divine mission, as, indeed, it was.  He claimed in hyperbolical Eastern metaphor honour and respect as the Messenger of the Most High.  And His followers, ignorant and uneducated, magnified His claims in the light of the Crucifixion and Resurrection and their attendant wonders. And so the story grew until it has reached the marvelous dimensions which now astonish reflecting men.”

Nevertheless, Imperator explained that Jesus was controlled and animated by spirits who had never been incarnated and that all spiritual light comes from him, reaching the world through innumerable links connected in one vast chain of influence. “It is rare for any high spirit to control directly as we are controlling now,” he continued. “In such cases the medium’s spirit must be considerably developed, and such mediums are rare. The control can be conveyed through a number of links; but when the medium is mentally undeveloped the higher spirits will not endeavour to influence him.  It is not possible for a spirit, as far progressed as the Christ, to directly control mediums on this earth. He was the immediate expression of a separate spiritual phase of the Divine Will. He has left no successor, nor will any ever spring from Him. His influence is entirely devoted to the enlightenment of your globe, for to each globe is assigned its own source of spiritual light.” 

Imperator added that, as in the case of the Buddha, the idea of Christ’s divinity did not arise until many years after His death. “The prophet was exalted at the expense of the message which He delivered,” Imperator continued. “He never claimed any such position as His followers have assigned to Him. He was the mediator between God and man in the truest sense, for He was able to make manifest God’s Truth to the age in which He lived, and, through it, to succeeding ages.  Throughout His whole life He was in direct antagonism to the prevailing spirit of the age, and He met the fate all such must meet with; first maligned, then falsely accused, falsely condemned, and finally executed.”

Imperator said that it was often difficult for him to get through to Moses. “I myself am far away from the medium, and unable to draw nearer to him, on account of his mental and corporeal conditions.  When out of health, I cannot approach him. Spirits recently passed from earth can more readily draw near to him, but we are able to influence from a distance – time and space not existing with us.”

Doctor, one of the 49 in the Imperator group, stressed that the spirit-body is the real man, the earth-body only its temporary clothing. When the earth body is thrown off, the real man is left with all his individuality untouched. He told of different stages in the development of the spirit body, a more-refined body eventually replacing the one that leaves the earth-body. “At each successive stage the spirit accretes to itself a similar body, and throws aside one which has become unsuited to it. Hence, each change of state is accompanied by one somewhat analogous to death.”

Asked about the resurrection of Jesus, Doctor replied, in part: “In fabricating such a theory they have missed the truth, though they have partially enshrined it in their dogma. The body of earth, friend, cannot be restored when once it has been resolved into its elemental state. It is dissipated once and for ever, and in future combinations becomes the perpetual constituent of other forms of matter. The fabled resurrection cannot be. But men have taken no account of another body…the Spirit Body. The real man rises from earth and is transported to his real home….The appearance of Jesus was of the Spirit Body, which He was enabled to manifest in tangible form. The earth body never rose.”  Doctor added that the three archangels who were concerned in governing the life of Jesus – Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael – aided by spiritual power, removed the body.

Imperator communicated that earth-bound spirits had somehow gained the upper-hand and commented that Spiritualism was on its last trial and would probably pass into another phase. “There is in Spiritualism a growing and most fatal influence,” Imperator lamented, “a spiritual form of materialism which results from the study of phenomena only.  Men care only for the force and refuse to recognize the various forms of intelligence that underlie it. Matter is an accident; spirit is reality. All the religious systems of the world rest on a belief in the future life. Owing to the materialistic atmosphere round the world, there is too great a tendency to smother Divine Truth under a whole host of phenomena. If people rest content with these only, it would have been better for them to leave the subject alone. We hope, however, that many will rise above the phenomenal aspects of the subject and seek for those higher spiritual truths to which the former have only served as an introduction.”

Michael Tymn is the author of The Afterlife Revealed: What Happens After We Die, Resurrecting Leonora Piper: How Science Discovered the Afterlife, and Dead Men Talking: Afterlife Communication from World War I.
His latest book, No One Really Dies: 25 Reasons to Believe in an Afterlife is published by White Crow books.

Next blog post:  Feb. 27 (More from Imperator)



Comments

John,

I don’t think it works that way, i.e., that a modern medium can simply dial up the Imperator group for more ideas. They seem to have accomplished their mission with Moses and to have withdrawn.  However, low-level spirits might claim to be from the Imperator group if someone did attempt it and so we’d never really know. For that reason, I doubt that the true Imperator group would respond. Who would believe it was really them? A few gullible people might believe it, but the majority wouldn’t and so there would be no point to it. They apparently realize that.

Michael Tymn, Tue 28 Feb, 01:07

Don,

I have found Mackenzie King to have been a very interesting and intriguing.  However, it should be noted that he said he was foremost a Christian and if Spiritualism conflicted with his Christian beliefs, he would choose the Christian teaching. His comment was motivated by such a conflict. The point of the quote was to highlight the gray areas in all of this.

Michael Tymn, Tue 28 Feb, 00:56

Michael…

Interesting quote from Mackenzie King—I hadn’t seen any from that early. As I’m sure you’ve seen, I use a somewhat later quote from King, in a post WWII letter to Irish medium Geraldine Cummins, to close out my Introduction. I won’t put it all down here, but it shows, if anything, perhaps an even stronger attitude to the “spirit world” by then…

Don Porteous, Sun 26 Feb, 17:15

Excellent quote, Michael! - AOD

Amos Oliver Doyle, Sun 26 Feb, 16:13

That King/Wagner quote, Michael, is a rare burst of piercing insight. As I read it, however, the ground for our discernment of spiritualist communications is not the correspondence of one such communication with another, but rather the correspondence of all of them with the higher truths conveyed by the fundamental teachings of humanity’s great religious and philosophical traditions. As I have long come to believe, the highest communications come through inspiration and intuition, not direct communication. This is a point made repeatedly in Spirit Teachings but so often overlooked.

Newton Finn, Sun 26 Feb, 16:03

I’ve been reading a lengthy manuscript and hopefully future book about Mackenzie King, former prime minister of Canada, by Anton Wagner, who draws extensively from King’s diaries.  One quote really jumped out at me and applies somewhat to the previous discussions here relative to coloring and distortions of the messages as well as the issue of interference by low-level spirits in the communication from advanced spirits. As I have often said, I don’t believe the messages are “all or nothing” when it comes to their validity.  Most of them seem to have been colored somewhat by the medium’s subconscious and much of it seems to have come from lower-level spirits (not necessarily “evil” spirits) and so considerable discernment is required. The better the medium, the less the coloring and interference seems to be the case.  With much discernment, and to the extent the messages are consistent with other messages saying the same thing, we can at least get the gist of the messages.  With Wagner’s permission, I will copy and paste the King quote below.  It is drawn from his diary for August 30, 1934.

“Broadly speaking I seem to have come to believe positively in survival after death – of personality continued – of each going to his own place – of spirits continuing to influence our lives, and some to guide and to guard, while others (not intentionally but nevertheless actually) might mislead – but to have the feeling what we get in spiritualism is the lowest plane – the borderland betwixt this world and the next—where earth influences continue to control, and where night and day are intermingled as at twilight.  It is the twilight region and must be so regarded.  The real light – the source of Truth and Justice and Love, cometh from on High – a Higher Source – and finds its way more immediately to us by the conscience in man— ‘the celestial and immortal voice – rather than by what is seen or heard in these glimpses of the unseen – faith remains the true avenue of approach to God – and Christ the way, truth & the life.”

Michael Tymn, Sun 26 Feb, 02:00

Don, thanks for elaborating on Rucker’s research.  Yes, it does appear to go beyond “symbolism.”

And, thanks to Bruce for taking the time to relate the book test involving Moses. Although I suspect there is some “coloring” of the messages by Moses’s subconscious, I also “suspect” that much, if not most of it, is not colored by his subconscious mind. Much discernment is required.

Michael Tymn, Sat 25 Feb, 09:37

Michael…

Your point (an excellent one) is well taken—and is precisely why the research that I refer to by Dr. Robert Rucker, on the Shroud of Turin,  is so important.

One of the realities with regard to the Shroud is that when the original Carbon-14 dating was done in 1988—an event now (only) 45-years-old—regardless of the medieval “date of creation” that the three testing laboratories came up with, a key point is that each of those three laboratories came up with a somewhat different date. And that’s where Rucker’s research comes in. As presented in my write-up (pages 313-314, and I’ll quote directly)...

“Rucker’s work began with the hypothesis, consistent with much of the physical evidence on the Shroud, of a burst of radiation emanating ‘from the body’ contained within the Shroud. Then, recognizing that the individual samples given to the three testing laboratories (all taken from one small strip removed from a non-image area at one corner of the Shroud) were all at ‘slightly different distances’ from the center of mass of the body—Rucker calculated that the age predicted by the three C-14 tests would get ‘younger’ by about ‘36 to 38 years per centimeter’ as the sample point moved towards the center of the body mass.
    Then assuming (as others before him had done) that ‘neutrons’ were included with the radiation burst, Rucker calculated, using the MCNP [Monte Carlo N-Transport Particle Code] nuclear simulation software—and using the ‘precise amount of neutron release that would have been required to result in the 1360-year discrepancy in the age of the Shroud’—that the shape of the ensuing neutron distribution on the Shroud would have been such as to cause (by the neutrons converting N-14 to additional C-14) ‘precisely the age discrepancies reportew4d among the three laboratories.’

The bottom line is that, when good science is properly applied, it’s sometimes possible to come up with HARD DATA—actual facts—that can cause us to view something like the Shroud of Turin as something more than mere “symbolism.”

Thanks for your input…

Don Porteous, Fri 24 Feb, 13:38

Dear all,
I have a section from SM which illustrates the tests mediums do to see if the responses are from their own minds or those of others. I was forced to use the text version which had spelling faults. It comes from Spirit Identity by M A Oxon (aka SM).
On the 22nd May, 1873, the medium held the following conversation with the spirits, he writing the questions, and the answers coming afterwards by what Dr. Carpenter would call “ unconscious cerebration governing the motions of the hand”

THE READING OF BOOKS BY SPIRITS.

Can you read ?

No, friend, I cannot, but Zachary Gray can, and R . I am not able to materialise myself, or to command the elements.

Are either of those spirits here?

I will bring one by and by. I will send . . . R is here.

I am told you can read* Is that so ? Can you read a book?

[Spirit handwriting changed.] Yes, friend, with difficulty.

Will you write for me the last line of the first book of the Aneid ?

Wait. “ Omnibus errantem terris, et fluctibus cetas*’

[This was right.]

Quite so, But 1 might have known it. Can you go to the book-case, take the last book but one on the second shelf and read me the last paragraph of the ninety fourth page? I have not seen it, and do not even know its name,

If will curtly prove by a short historical narrative, that popery is a novelty, and has gradually arisen or grown up since the primitive and pure time of Christianity, not only since the apostolic age, but even since the lamentable union of kirk and the state by Constantine.”

[The book on examination proved to be a queer one called “Roger’s Antipopopriestian, an attempt to liberate and purify Christianity from Popery, Politikirkality and Priest rule.” The extract given above was accurate, but the word “ narrative ” was substituted for “account.”

How came I to pitch upon so appropriate a sentence ?

I know not, my friend. It was by coincidence. The word was changed by error. I knew it when it was done, but would not change.

How do you read ? You wrote more slowly^ and by fits and starts.

I wrote what I remembered, and then I went for more. It is a special effort to read, and useful only as a test. Your friend was right last night ; we can read, but only when conditions are very
good. We will read once again, and write and then impress you of the book : “Pope is the last great writer of that school of poetry, the poetry of the intellect, or rather of the intellect mingled with
the fancy,” That is truly written. Go and take the eleventh book on the same shelf. [I took a book called Poetry^ Romance and
Rhetoric,] It will open at the page for you. Take it and read, and recognise our power, and the permission which the great and good God gives us, to show you of our power over matter. To Him be
glory. Amen.

[The book opened at page 145, and there was the quotation perfectly true. I had not seen the book before ; certainly had no idea of its contents.]

Here, then, are very strong proofs of spirit identity, and of spirit messages very free from bias due to the thoughts of the medium. As some spirits can read books when conditions are favourable, the fact brings their personal identity again into question, for may not a deceiving spirit extract personal particulars from a book, and give them as appertaining to himself?

In the back of most mediums minds is the fear that the spirits are deceiving but it is the close working relationship that forms. The tricks that I use to spot scammers in cybersecurity apply to the spirit world. As they say By their words judge them.
Thanks,
Bruce

Bruce Williams, Fri 24 Feb, 13:30

Don,

Today is the 78th anniversary of the Marine Corps flag-raising on Iwo Jima, the one that has become so celebrated.  However, there is still controversy as to who the six Marines were that raised the flag and indications are that two of them featured in Clint Eastwood’s movie of 2015 were not involved with the flag raising. Then there is the question of two different flag raisings, one with a small flag and one with a larger flag and with a photo op, and what happened to the flags. The point is that we are still struggling with establishing facts in things that happened just 78 years ago, much less (or much more) 2,000 years ago. Nevertheless, the symbolism of both events persists.

Michael Tymn, Fri 24 Feb, 02:38

There is now an extended v3rsion of the NDE I mentioned in the first post. He is interviewed by the Jeff Mara podcast
https://youtu.be/3gPXoPtmNP4

Chris, Wed 22 Feb, 19:37

Thank you Elisabeth and Michael,
In the Meanwhile I got an answer from who is inspiring my dreams. Ik made a poem out of their message ( Google translation out of Dutch):
“They say time is linear on earth
Second by second ticks away, it has its value
But beyond this illusion it’s gone
Whoever didn’t expect it is bad luck
Time passes according to the changes, be it actions or thoughts
Time is sometimes short, sometimes long, according to the prevailing forces
That’s why patience is one of the virtues there too
She makes waiting for the next thing rather a joy .”

Love certainly is such a change, even more it’s the most important change of all.

chris, Mon 20 Feb, 17:43

Chris: “why must we learn to be patient in this life?”

Patience is needed to develop our characters and, most importantly, to learn how to love, arguably the reason for our existence on this planet and our chief purpose in life.

St. Paul’s famous fragment about love from his letter to Corinthians starts with, “Love is patient.”

Elizabeth, Mon 20 Feb, 05:41

Dear all,
I do not know of any mediums making contact with the 49. It was a complicated arrangement.
The SM group/team with spirit teachings was a well prepared operation. I have just picked up a book on a Japanese medium contacting a well known scientist. I wonder why such a contact was made as the training of a Japanese medium and an English scientist would be not the easiest.

When I taught business planning I would start with what do you want to achieve? Three choices Make money then create excellent products and lastly save the world. Students all said I will do all three. I said that there are different drivers for different goals. SM/Imperator team was in the third category. Did they succeed?
I think that did as we are still talking about them (thanks to Michael’s blog).

Other spirit teachings have also worked. My take on the comment that Spiritualism needed to move away from the demonstration side is that for progression to occur there must be rich discussion of the various teachings. Why so many and varied?

It has to do with adult learning. Consider each of our current beliefs as onions and new thoughts permeate through the layers of the onion to resonate with core beliefs. This is standard adult training. In other words you get the same message in different ways.
Thanks for your time
Bruce

Bruce Williams, Sun 19 Feb, 12:16

Am wondering whether any modern mediums have or are willing to attempt further contact with this group in this 21st Century.    Would their views still be relevant at this moment in time?

John OCallaghan, Sat 18 Feb, 02:24

Dear All,
I would like to discuss certain elements of Stanton Moses (SM’s) mediumship, in particular the team structure and the linkage. The Imperator group/team had spirits at various levels of advancement- the higher the level the more significance we place on their truths. They had also waited until SM had reached a certain level of understanding before communicating.

Most mediums distrust spirits in the initial stages until there becomes a working relationship. This is no different to business relationships. The distrust is usually from both sides. In my experience there is no mention of names until the working relationship has been going for some time.

It is the character of the spirit that is important and what they would like to communicate.

The 49 spirits were grouped to provide guidance in different areas. Again in my experience the group is formed as you would form a project team with specialists in differing fields. There would be a project team leader.

The project teams in this world that I have lead were usually a team of six, only a few Defence based projects with 50 members.
These larger teams would mean that you would get subcontractors with their separate team leaders.  A team of 49 is a very large team to manage.
SM had no project management skills so he was on the receiving end of 49 spirits in various groups with all the project management was from the spirit side. “Hi, this spirit will provide this truth.”

I see Imperator as the team leader giving sage advice but also allowing specialist advice from members of this group.

In dealing with spirit teams there is usually the team leader with strong communication abilities. The others in the team as usually not as strong. Some are too strong and they put the medium to sleep.

My point is that I look at the relationship between spirit team leader and the medium. There is usually a common linkage. In order to deliver teachings you need a strong linkage. Why SM?
At the mediumship level of giving loved ones there is no structure. Personal messages only but for spirit teachings to be delivered then you need structure. This brings me to Patience - no wonder Amos is impressed as teachings from one. Same with Seth and Bill - one teacher.

So higher truths come from higher spirits. Do we look for the spirit teachings from groups or individuals? At which level of advancement do we listen?  I can roughly spot the levels by their power but I always look for the conformity of spirit teachings.
just another perspective in the debate.
Bruce

Bruce Williams, Fri 17 Feb, 11:24

Michael…

I just followed your link to 2017 blog on the Shroud of Turin. It was an excellent synopsis, as far as it went—which unfortunately, did not include the science from nuclear engineer Robert Rucker, which was quite new at the time, and which provided a highly cogent, and experimentally supported, explanation of the Shroud’s apparent disappearance which makes the “dematerialization by the spirits” mentioned at the end of your piece, a very real possibility. Again, this is all in my book (which itself may be outdated by now, as Rucker’s research continued…)

Don Porteous, Thu 16 Feb, 17:55

Anthony,

There was some discussion by the researchers relative to the similarity of the Imperator of Moses to that of Leonora Piper.  Also, Moses attempted to communicate directly. It was not very successful and there were doubts, but I don’t recall the specifics at this time and will have to do some checking, which might take some time, as I am leaving on a short trip tomorrow.  Thanks for reminding me of it.

Michael Tymn, Wed 15 Feb, 21:35

Don,

Thanks for the interesting update on the Shroud of Turin.  If anyone is interested, my blog on the subject is in the archives for April 24, 2017 or click on
http://whitecrowbooks.com/michaeltymn/entry/the_shroud_of_turin_beyond_science/

Michael Tymn, Wed 15 Feb, 21:30

Chris,

I think the time matter is beyond human comprehension, at least mine.  The same question can be asked relative to reincarnation, i.e., how can we be leading different lives in different time periods at the same time? 

Amos, thanks for the video link.  I haven’t had a chance to watch it yet, as I have to get back to the year 2428 to take care of an important matter, but I intend to watch it tonight.

Michael Tymn, Wed 15 Feb, 21:26

Michael (and Stafford)...

You both mentioned the removal of Jesus’ body from the tomb by the “three archangels.” It’s impossible to come to any judgment on the “missing body” question, without at least some consideration of the Shroud of Turin.

I was very abashed the other day, after having studied the Shroud for many years, to realize that I had completely missed one of the most important pieces of Shroud research ever—one which appeared in Italy just within the past year (April of 2022). A researcher named Liberato de Caro, working at an official government laboratory primarily devoted to crystallography, began experimenting on the dating of fabric samples using a new type of “Wide-Angle X-ray Scattering,” something that’s way beyond my knowledge base. Supposedly, besides being non-destructive (and thereby repeatable, if necessary) it’s far more accurate than the carbon-14 method, as it measures the natural degradation of fabrics over time. In any event, he and his team used their approach to date a number of different samples of linen—of a similar nature to the Shroud—which based on previous more standard tests, had known ages ranging from roughly (I may be off here a bit) 4000BC to 2000AD. He then attempted to date the Shroud using the same technique on a single thread from the same area as the controversial 1988 C14 effort, and looked to see which of the previously dated samples, if any, matched most closely with the Shroud’s dating profile.The one clear match turned out to be a piece of linen from the ancient Jewish massacre site at Masada, from roughly 55AD.

Considering that the most likely explanation for the “image” area on the Shroud seems to be some form of radiation event (see my book)—if a first-century AD date for the Shroud is legitimate (as the new research gives exceptionally strong support for)—then the “three archangels” may have used something a bit more sophisticated than a simple “lifting” technique. Who knows what they had in their toolbox…

Don Porteous, Wed 15 Feb, 17:07

Can I pose a philosophical question here that popped up in my mind yesterday. I cannot find an answer to that: if time does not exist in the afterlife, why must we learn to be patient in this life? We don’t need to use patience later if everything happens in the now and out of time.

Chris, Wed 15 Feb, 08:27

Thank you, Michael. Has anyone ever compared what Imperator communicated through Moses with what Imperator communicated through Leonora Piper? I wonder if the teachings are consistent.

Anthony, Wed 15 Feb, 05:21

Here is a podcast by JeffMara that I would recommend.  A lady describes an interesting NDE she had many years ago.  It could be that a part of that podcast at around 40:00 was meant as a message to me concerning Stainton Moses’ experiences receiving messages from spirits in the afterlife. The woman’s description how she receives messages I could extrapolate to the Stainton Moses situation. I found this interesting and I think you will too.  – AOD

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZCDTE0aD8E

Amos Oliver Doyle, Tue 14 Feb, 23:33

Michael,
Two teletransported mediums come to my mind.  Carlos Mirabelli reportedly was transported 90 kilometers from a train station in two minutes and Alec Harris was reported by his wife to have been teletransported from an upstairs bedroom to the outside of the front door of the house he and his wife were staying in.

And yes, though not intentionally I do seem to play the “Devil’s Advocate” at times.  But what good is it if we are all ‘preaching to the choir’?  I only wish that more people would comment as I know that there are many people who read these posts and comments but never or rarely comment.  - AOD

Amos Oliver Doyle, Tue 14 Feb, 21:46

Amos, thanks for the additional comment. The Imperator group members have said they don’t have all the answers, while many of the answers they have are beyond human comprehension, and some things are beyond their comprehension. One area is reincarnation, which I will mention in the next blog Moreover, the 49 are not all at the same level of advancement.  Rector was said to be significantly lower than Imperator, and that’s why he was often called upon to relay Imperator’s messages.

Michael Tymn, Tue 14 Feb, 20:55

The Imperator Group mentions the physical phenomena in four or five places in “More Spirit Teachings,” and their view seems to differ a little with each one, but it seems clear that the physical phenomena were/are intended to awaken the more materialistic among us and might be considered a “necessary evil.” Since the degree of materialism seems to have increased over the years, indications are that the physical phenomena still have a purpose. So I will likely continue to discuss them.

Michael Tymn, Tue 14 Feb, 20:29

Thanks to Chris for the interesting link. It is indeed “icing on the cake.”

Michael Tymn, Tue 14 Feb, 20:24

Amos,

Thanks again for playing the “Devil’s Advocate.” Your character analysis of Moses doesn’t fit with the words of Dr. Stanhope Speer, Maria Speer, Charlton Speer, and Frederic Myers, but I suspect that some of Moses’s beliefs got mixed in with what the Imperator group had to say. As with all other communication, one has to judge based on the overall gist of it, or maybe “essence” of it is a more appropriate word., or simply the “appeal to reason.”

There is no point in considering any of it if we insist that subconscious influences of the medium could not have played any part of it. Like everything else, it seems to be a matter of degree.  I give Moses a 94.7% credibility factor, thereby leaving 5.3% for possible error, including subconscious influence and even conscious distortion. I admit that it is a little less than the 96.4% I give to Pearl Curran with the Patience Worth communication, but it is in the same ballpark.

As for the lack of women in the Group of 49, the world clearly had not progressed that far at that time.  We are continually told that spiritual progression is the objective. It appears that progress is being made.

If it were all “love” as you suggest, would there be any point in the material life?

Michael Tymn, Tue 14 Feb, 20:22

What difference does it make if the “teachings” of Imperator or Seth are transmitted from spirits in the afterlife or were philosophical/spiritual creations of an intelligent educated human being with insight into a greater reality? If they are from a subconscious mind of a living person, so what? Many living people over the centuries have had the same intelligent thoughts about living a good life and the nature of reality.  If I write my views of the afterlife and of spirits and God and I credit them to a spirit in the afterlife, for example Jesus, Mary, Plato or Malachias, does that make them more credible or less credible concerning content?  I think it makes absolutely no difference.  The “teachings’ are what they are.  It is just by claiming that they are from spirits in the afterlife some people believe, maybe subconsciously, that the “teachings”  must have more validity since it is assumed that those spirits, from their perspective, surely must know everything that there is to know about God, and the multiple spheres of the afterlife.  Tagging philosophical or spiritual/religious thought with authorship by Christian biblical prophets or ancient Roman scholars is just trying to attach some authenticity and truth to what is being said so that it might be unquestionable and unchallenged.

These “teachings” from whomever, appeal to people of a like mind.  Those of a religious training and vocation respond to the “teachings’ of Imperator and those of an inquisitive mind tuned to non-mainstream ideas, so-called “New Age” people, will find in Seth congruence and identification with their own thoughts.  Those of a poetic mind and love of the natural world will find Patience Worth believable.


I don’t think one can pick and choose which transmitted “teachings” one will accept.  If Imperator actually is revealing the “truth” whatever that is as he claims, then why is it that some of the “truth” is true” while other “truth” is questionable.  The answer is that the questionable “truth” does not agree with one’s own ideas about what the “truth” should be. - AOD

Amos Oliver Doyle, Tue 14 Feb, 20:16

Michael,

Both “Spirit Teachings” and “More Spirit Teachings” have been reproduced by White Crow Books. I personally think the sequel offers more, but it lacks the background material on Moses and some of the foundation that helps one better understand Moses and where he is coming from.

Michael Tymn, Tue 14 Feb, 20:00

Stafford,

I also wondered about the removal of Jesus’s body by the three archangels, but if the levitations of humans, such as D. D. Home, Eusapia Paladino, Stainton Moses, etc. are the result of spirits lifting them, as seems to be the case, rather than them levitating themselves as it is usually assumed and reported, then why not? Research seems to suggest that ectoplasmic levers are used in the lifting process by the spirits, but since mainstream science doesn’t recognize ectoplasm or levitations, there is little to be found on the subject.  Ectoplasm is said to be the “life principle” that leaves the body after physical functions stop, but there are indications that it doesn’t all leave immediately. Also, there are reports of cases in which people have been teletransported great distances. I can’t think of the name of the primary one in this regard, but it seems to have had credible witnesses.

Michael Tymn, Tue 14 Feb, 19:55

“‘There is in Spiritualism a growing and most fatal influence,’ Imperator lamented, ‘a spiritual form of materialism which results from the study of phenomena only…. Owing to the materialistic atmosphere round the world, there is too great a tendency to smother Divine Truth under a whole host of phenomena. If people rest content with these only, it would have been better for them to leave the subject alone.’”

Thank you, Michael, for sharing this crucial observation in the context of a most substantive post. Not only health issues have kept me from being more active here in recent days. Also there have been issues concerning what I consider a subtle change in emphasis or focus, especially in the comment section, the things we talk about. Imperator hit it on the head.

Newton Finn, Tue 14 Feb, 18:05

All of this makes great sense, though I do question Doctor’s claim that three archangels removed Jesus’ body from the tomb.

Stafford, Mon 13 Feb, 23:57

Thanks, Michael, for sparking a conversation about Moses and Imperator. 

As much as I try to read Stainton Moses’ “Imperator” teachings of “truth” from the group of 49 spirits of which he claimed to be the leader,  I can not read them without getting visions and impressions of Stainton Moses as a troubled depressed man.  Those impressions tell me that he was a conflicted man, a lonely anxiety-ridden recluse of sorts who after spending much of his formative lifetime imbued with Anglican Christian dogma came to realize in a midlife crisis that he questioned or disagreed with much of the teachings of the Anglican church.  I tire of the preachy lamenting found throughout the “teachings” and look in vain for something uplifting or loving, something that would include all peoples and beliefs of earth, not only English Anglican Christians.  The tone of the “teachings” is decidedly something one might find in a Sunday sermon from a non-traditional Anglican pulpit and I nod off to sleep after two or three pages.  Yet, I have to take Imperator’s word that they are “truth”.


Where there any women who were part of the group of 49 spirits?  Or, as it seems to me, was this a patriarchal authoritarian group of prophets and philosophers of thousands of years ago who wanted to tell everyone else what to believe and do.  Or was Imperator and the group of 49 just Stainton Moses’ alter egos expressing what was “truth” to them, that is, to Stainton Moses.  It is reported that Moses, himself was not always sure of who or what they were.


According to an article in Encyclopedia.com https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/moses-william-stainton-1839-1892


The identity of the communicators was not revealed by Moses in his lifetime. They were made public in a later book The “Controls” of Stainton Moses by A. W. Trethewy published in 1923 thirty-one years after the death of Stainton Moses.  Here are a few of them—-all men.  Whether or not the other 28 were named was not included in the article.

“Like “Imperator” and “Preceptor” every member of the band had an assumed name at first. The biblical characters included the following names, as revealed later: “Malachias” (Imperator), “Elijah” (Preceptor), “Haggai” (The Prophet), “Daniel” (Vates), “Ezekiel,” “St. John the Baptist” (Theologus). The ancient philosophers and sages numbered 14. They were: “Solon,” “Plato,” “Aristotle,” “Seneca,” “Athenodorus” (Doctor), “Hippolytus” (Rector), “Plotinus” (Prudens), “Alexander Achillini” (Philosophus), “Algazzali or Ghazali” (Mentor), “Kabbila,” “Chom,” “Said,” “Roophal,” “Magus.””

I bristle when “Imperator” refers to the disciples of Jesus as “ignorant and uneducated”.  To me that suggests that “Imperator” is condescending and does not have a very good understanding of the human condition at that time and that sometimes what a privileged educated Anglican priest sees as ignorant may just be common sense and “street knowledge” of the common hard-working people. God himself and any higher spirit would understand that.  Imperator seems to not have a broad view of humanity in general to include all peoples.  I don’t feel love coming from “Imperator” and the group.  I don’t get the sense of the loving presence as reported by almost every person who has had a near death experience when they encounter spirits in the afterlife.  Those encounters seem to be with forgiving, non-critical, accepting, understanding and loving spirits. One would expect the same all-embracing love from a higher spirit, such as Imperator” claims to be.  But I don’t feel any of that love coming from “Imperator” and I don’t see any of that in his teachings. 

“Imperator” speaks of “many spirits with the best of intentions” that may be agents of “adversaries”  but that he and his troop of 49 spirits have “descended to your world for nothing else than to reveal Truth to man”.  “Adversaries”?  Is there a battle going on that Imperator is engaging in?  Well now basically what he is saying is that, “Only we tell you the truth.  Don’t believe anyone else.”  But truth is like beauty, I think, often in the eye of the beholder.

It may be that William Stainton Moses was indeed a medium.  And I accept that based upon reports of his antics from a few people who were privileged to attend the seances with Moses.  Whether or not he was in contact with spirits of any sort I think that may still be open to question especially concerning the “teachings of truth” by “Imperator.” - AOD

Amos Oliver Doyle, Mon 13 Feb, 23:32

Mike,

Good blog. Sounds like the Imperator group got to many of the points Seth makes about God, Jesus, and the nature of reality long before Seth shared them. Imperator just explains them to humans in a way that 19th century men could understand. Same message, just tuned for the time.
What is the single Staunton Moses book that best polite out his message. I may want to read it. I’m intrigued by the similarities of message.

Mike S.

P.S. I agree with Imperator and Seth that Christianity is a fast-fading religion, and we need and should expect a new spiritual movement to replace it within the next century.

Michael Schmicker, Mon 13 Feb, 20:42

I repeat my last post from January because it has a NDE about God.
This is a beautiful NDE experience:
https://youtu.be/n5jvRtBeY6E

Chris, Mon 13 Feb, 11:20


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An Extraordinary Clairvoyant and an Extraordinary Policeman by Zofia Weaver – Jackowski’s name became more prominent because of a case in the mid-1990s. The case in question took place in 1994-95 and involved three men who disappeared while on a business trip to Kaliningrad (Koenigsberg). Their families asked Jackowski for help and using a photograph of one of the men he sensed that the man was dead, as were his companions; their throats had been cut and they had been decapitated. The clairvoyant could hardly believe what he saw but when he tried again he saw three headless bodies in a forest at a specific location. Read here
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